Ultimate & One-off Freestanding Safes

[Huw Eastwood]

I forgot to add the original Chubb Sovereign- not to be confused with the later model of much lower grade that chubb made with the same name. The one I'm referring to was immense, ridiculously heavy, very expensive and had the QZ prefix to the serial numbers- extremely rare safes.

I can remember the original back in the mid 1980s and our Chubb safe rep joking he'd take us all to an expensive restaurant if we sold one- I think they only made them in 2 or possibly 3 sizes, the larger one costing £15,200 in 1985 or 86.

What separated the Chubb was it's choice of barrier material- whereas most manufacturers went with aluminium for the defensive matrix on their top models, Chubb spared no expense and used solid copper dispersed with their barrier nuggets. Hence the price and the weight of them- not quite in the same league as the giant Chatwood CB Quality perhaps, but even so the Sovereigns weighed far more than the Bankers, Treasury and the Financier model which eventually replaced it.

Not sure if they started out as a one-off commission as the Tann Diamond did, but it's definitely a possibility and worth being mentioned as I'm sure one of you guys will know.


Also worth a mention is the original Chubb Planet- cream or brown plastic- anyone remember them before they went euro and become encapsulated in the steel shells? That's another that might have been the result of a unique commission on the basis and grounds of floor loading capacities on upper floors in buildings. Again I'm not sure though, so would be great if one of you guys know. Probably the best safe that never was!

Chubb's DuPont developed (I think) barrier material- Ellox as they named it, really was a major breakthrough and perhaps even one of the most significant of recent times. Here we had a material and a safe which almost seemed to defy physics- A plastic polymer impregnated with near diamond-hard chips that could put up a fight against serious drill attacks, disc cutters, explosives and thermal cutting! And it was a third of the weight of anything else being used- and plastic!

The original uncovered plastic version- what-you-see-is-what-you-get, wasn't around for long before the euro gradings changed everything and it evolved to a VdS tested euro grader- £35,000 cash rating with just 25 mm thick walls if I remember right- and still a fraction of the weight of most equivalent safes on the market- amazing stuff.

Last I heard it was never a big seller because of it's cost, and that it was still being made I think in Holland, under the Lips wing of Gunnebo (sorry Adrian ;~), but I think even that's all become history now.

I remember a lengthy chat with some serious plastics experts about 20 years ago, asking them about the thermoplastic Chubb had used for the Planet. They all thought it was a wind-up- firstly they'd never heard of it, secondly they seemed to doubt everything I was telling them, and thirdly they all scratched their heads and said that there wasn't a polymer or thermoplastic in the universe that could perform as the so-called Ellox material. I just picked up my Delrin and nylon bars I'd paid for and came away bewildered but smiling- for me that just made the Chubb Planet that extra bit special

[safeman]

An interesting topic MaxVaultage which took me back a year or so when the safe-makers designed and built to defeat the criminal - not the test house.

The exception could be the S.L.S. Gem which I've always believed was an ego trip on Mr. Painter's part to create the first rectangular bodied safe to attain the Underwriter's Laboratories certification in the category TX-TL60.

This is where one of the pair went - didn't know about the other. It appeared for the first time in the Levy Safe Rating List '79 -'80 which I'll now admit was a mistake on my part as it was never going into production.

A point about the Chatwood CB's hinges is that as the units were not for basement installation they did not need to be clenched and water resistant. Nor was the use of liquid NG considered to be a danger in this country.

At the same time as my company acquired the four or five Chatwoods there were also some massive Chubbs of a similar protection level, one of which is still in use in an Aberdeen jewellers premises. They were very similar to the illustration but without the crane hinges.

Thanks for the memories.

[Huw Eastwood]

Thanks for your reply safeman. I thought this'd be an interesting one which'd hopefully get some interesting discussion going, perhaps more will get time over Easter.

I can't help thinking there must be some amazing examples lost in the shadows- hopefully some more will show up.

Your correction on my SLS Gem dates reminded me of another- I didn't know the Gems were developed earlier in the late 70s, although thinking about it now it makes sense as I forgot to mention that for the Tann Diamond- around the same sort of time I think. Somewhere I've got a pile of old Locksmith Ledgers from the 70s/80s and remember the production version of the Tann aimed at the US market is mentioned in one around 1979 I think. I've also got a load of Keyways from around the same time, and although I remember some good articles on development and barrier materials I can't remember any mention of any of these. I'll have to dig them out and have another look.

Also I made a big mistake when I said the SLS Gem featured their usual Aluramic barrier material- I should've remembered- it was actually a big step up using a mixture of copper/ceramics and stainless/ceramics- hence the weight of what was quite a dimensionally small safe.

I can see where you're coming from when you refer to Mr. P's ego trip, but I think I can understand his thinking. If I'd been in his shoes at that time I'd have grabbed the opportunity and the whole 'unlimited' concept. Think of all the high temperature 'super-alloys' developed for jet engine turbine blades etc. Not to mention some of the ultra dense Tungsten alloys with a melting point over 6000F.

Good job he was in charge really, as if I'd been resonsible it would have ended up 6 foot square, weighed 115 tons and had enough internal space for a mars bar.

I can remember a few of the other safe manufactures referring to such 'ultimate safes' a few years later, saying that they also had the capability of producing an over-the-top unit offering an incredible level of resistive protection.

How things change though- much more recent, around 10 years ago, I was talking to one of the big companies and they remarked that they did occasionally still get such requests for a one-off 'ultimate safe'. One was for a unit with half a million cash cover- if it'd had been down to me I'd have been out in the factory already making a start on it. Their reply was, with hindsight I suppose to be expected, but it did surprise me at the time- buy 5 of our grade V's and spread the contents between them! Not surprising I suppose, and it does make sense nowadays since it's all gone that way with risk management etc.

Interesting about the Chatwood CB's- explains the basic hinges and emphasises it's conception uniquely for the CB's application.

Also the Chubb's you mentioned. They seem pretty elusive with little information available. I've seen the crane hinged bankers before, although your picture shows a different variation with a beautifully fluted door pull and handle. perhaps the 'super' versions were one-off variations or even an early Sovereign? Interesting stuff

[Cepasaccus]

Chubb's DuPont developed (I think) barrier material- Ellox as they named it, really was a major breakthrough and perhaps even one of the most significant of recent times. Here we had a material and a safe which almost seemed to defy physics- A plastic polymer impregnated with near diamond-hard chips that could put up a fight against serious drill attacks, disc cutters, explosives and thermal cutting! And it was a third of the weight of anything else being used- and plastic!

...

I remember a lengthy chat with some serious plastics experts about 20 years ago, asking them about the thermoplastic Chubb had used for the Planet. They all thought it was a wind-up- firstly they'd never heard of it, secondly they seemed to doubt everything I was telling them, and thirdly they all scratched their heads and said that there wasn't a polymer or thermoplastic in the universe that could perform as the so-called Ellox material.

Patent GB2197362 might be describing the material of this all-plastic safe.

The body and door of a safe ... constructed with a security barrier layer comprising an elastomer material such as polyurethane reinforced with elements of hard material such as aluminium or zirconium oxide. Onto this barrier is cast an outer elastomer layer..."

[safeman]

Patent GB2197362 might be describing the material of this all-plastic safe.

I have a few old notes regarding the Chubb Planet which may be of interest.


This safe was made in Holland. It was featured in a Tomorrows World programme many years age where it was subjected to the application of a disk cutter with a high number of disk being worn down by the Aloxite. It was also sledged to make a comparison with standard safes. Then there was a standard fire and fall test. All very effective. The door was locked by a continuous single bolt plate.
Although initially thought to be up to Grade 5 standard these early models were reported as having been recalled. Later versions were made with conventional metal bodies and may have been tested by Vds. As with TDR the material could be penetrated by skilled operators. They had some popularity where floor loading was a problem.

[Huw Eastwood]

Patent GB2197362 might be describing the material of this all-plastic safe.

I have a few old notes regarding the Chubb Planet which may be of interest.


This safe was made in Holland. It was featured in a Tomorrows World programme many years age where it was subjected to the application of a disk cutter with a high number of disk being worn down by the Aloxite. It was also sledged to make a comparison with standard safes. Then there was a standard fire and fall test. All very effective. The door was locked by a continuous single bolt plate.
Although initially thought to be up to Grade 5 standard these early models were reported as having been recalled. Later versions were made with conventional metal bodies and may have been tested by Vds. As with TDR the material could be penetrated by skilled operators. They had some popularity where floor loading was a problem.

Cheers Cerpasaccus, that’s definitely it from the description.

Cheers safeman, I remember the launch of these in the 80s and have a brochure for the original all plastic Planet- like the one you’ve pictured, and remember seeing it featured on Tomorrow’s World. Never actually saw an original version out in the field though.

Amazing technology for its time and still holds a few secrets we can learn from today in my view! Not only unique design and construction but also pioneering in terms of safe manufacture, as certain components were moulded in-situ as part of the overall structure.

The later versions like you said were encapsulated in an outer steel shell to meet the European testing grades and became the EuroPlanet, which in my view pretty much defeated the object.
All the additional steel increased the weight (and cost) significantly and like you said their appeal was in restricted weight applications.
Like the superb 1970s Chubb Castelle before it (not the later rubbish with same name), many Planets found homes in wealthy city apartments where floor loadings were limited.
But, with an already high price tag it became almost pointlessly non competitive once the weight and price increased further to meet the euro gradings.

Also, as far as I know they were the one badged Chubb product that was only ever made at the LIPS factory in Holland, and continued long after all the other production had gone to Malaysia.

Saw a few of the later euro grades with the steel outer but never an original ‘all plastic’.

[Huw Eastwood]

Just watched the Tomorrow’s World footage and it was the later EuroPlanet that featured and not the original all plastic model as I thought- shows how memory blurs with time.
I should have known from the tv screenshot safeman posted- the original mk1 colours were either a drab ivory beige or a hideous chocolate brown iirc.

[Huw Eastwood]

Here’s another contender for the ultimate safes thread while I’m onboard-
Didn’t post this when clearing old photos a while back as from memory John (safeman), had already posted it way back in the thread.
But, when re-reading through a year or so ago I realised what he’d posted was a totally different safe- the Inkas Monolith.

This Canadian offering- the Sécurifort 6222-CL5 isn’t as high specced as the Inkas which was TXTL-60x6, but with 5 inch walls and a 7 5/8 overall door it’s certainly no lightweight.
Described simply as to ULC Class 5 certification, and “incredibly high degree of torch and explosives resistance “. Hopefully the pics will upload..

[Gary Stephenson]

I have worked on modern bode panzer atms and leicher modern grade 6 safes and high grade strongrooms and rate their quality and construction highly, not really seen their older stuff except for photos but think top quality gear.

[Huw Eastwood]

https://www.antique-locks.com/showth...3575#post33575