Hobbs

[safeman]

Can't answer the question but know from all the Milners I've had and worked on ,recall they changed from pipe to pin on the powderproof stuff sometime between the late 1890s and a couple of years before WW1, say roughly 1912.
Possibly a knock on effect started by one of the big makers and the others then copied but I don't know.

Cant' answer the question either but know from experience that Milners with a drill pin inside the collar is much more difficult to blow successfully even with Gelignite (1875 onwards) as the charging instruments have much less room in which to operate. Before that time the Gunpowder-Proof design prevented all but a thimbleful of the powder charge to be introduced which was totally ineffective, even when placed over the top of the collar.

The thinner wall of the pipe key also had a durability disadvantages.

[Huw Eastwood]

Interesting that John, amazing how such a small component like the drill-pin can make such a big difference, same for picking resistance too I'd say. Not that a Milners powderproof with pin keys was ever an easy pick(!!), but the drill-pin in the bolt-thrower of the early pipe versions additionally restricts space for tension tools and wires and limits 2-in-1 type picks.

I retro-modified quite a few modern locks to pipe keys in the 90s as an additional measure to frustrate and combat commercially available picks-even did a few pipe versions of Mersey locks for extreme situations that required it!

[Gary Stephenson]

I remember seeing a picture of your pipe key Mersey, very nice, I know a collector who has all the versions of the Mersey, will have to show him a picture of your pipe key version 8-)

[Huw Eastwood]

cheers Gary, I've still got most of them somewhere. Experimented with a few designs- stainless drill pins in plastic and delrin curtains, moulded and machined variants but best were riveted hardened pins in machined brass- much more difficult to remove under attack than the delrin ones. I've got one I made here somewhere with a detachable bit on an 18 inch or so stem.

[Gary Stephenson]

if you have any pictures of them, post them up, always interesting

[safeman]

if you have any pictures of them, post them up, always interesting

[Gary Stephenson]

Cheers , happy new year to all, wonder what lock that key fit?

[safeman]

Cheers , happy new year to all, wonder what lock that key fit?

Happy hangover Gary,

Not familiar territory as you know Gary, but here's a possibility.
Acknowledgement 'Lock Collectors'.

[Huw Eastwood]

Seeing that Hobb's key got me thinking what's the longest stems out there with detachable bits? i'd imagine there's gotta be some three footers out there somewhere!

[safeman]

Hobbs & Co.
Hobbs Hart & Co.

The
Parautoptics and other change key locks.

Attachment 7287 Attachment 7288

M00076 - Hobbs made but to the Day & Newall design. 6 lever, 203 x 159mm.
M00079 - First production (sn:600) version with the Hobbs protector, anti-pressure, patent. Dated: 1863.