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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
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    Missouri
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    Country: United States

    Default Are J.B. Miller and Gougler the same?

    I just purchased a lock off E-Bay which looks like a Gougler. Looking at the back of the lock, it says J.B. Miller Keyless Lock Company. I compared it with a Gougler or 2 I saw on vintagecombinationlocks.com, and the town is the same (Kent, Ohio), and even stranger, it lists 2 patents on the back and they match between the J.B. Miller and the Gougler, so I was wondering, are they actually the same, but just branded differently?

    Any information is appreciated! Thanks!

    - Michael
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 335216696_tp.jpg   335216660_tp.jpg   030.jpg  

  2. #2
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    Dec 2009
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    Default

    Yes. The J.B. Miller Lock Company began in 1888, founded by James B. Miller. In 1944 or 1945 the company was taken over by the C. L. Gougler Company, also of Kent, which ran it as the C. L. Gougler Keyless Lock Company. In around the 1970s, Gougler got rid of the company which was then run by a family in Columbus coincindentally named Miller, who ran it as Miller Keyless Locks though some tags say Miller Industries Inc. They apparently went bankrupt and that was the end of things.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Missouri
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    Country: United States

    Default

    Let me make sure I understand the last part, Gougler was run by a family named Miller out of Columbus, and they were marking locks as Miller Keyless Lock Company, and then the company went bankrupt? Or, was Gougler bought out by this Miller family, and that's when they started running it under Miller Keyless Lock Company?

    Also, when would this lock date to? It doesn't match the first J.B. Miller Lock Company, and it doesn't say Gougler, and it doesn't say Miller Keyless Lock Company. It's almost like a combination of the first and last?

    Thanks for the info!

    - Michael

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
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    Country: United States

    Default

    There were three distinct eras:

    1 - J. B. Miller Keyless Lock Company, Kent. 1888-1944. Your lock would fit this era. The earliest advertisement for this style I've seen is from 1939. So a good guess would be 1939-1944 for your lock. The company was formed and run by James B. Miller until he died in 1927; his sons Ned and Jamie continued the company.

    2 - Gougler Keyless Locks, Kent. 1945 until the 1970s (does anybody have a more precise date). It isn't clear to me if the Miller company went bankrupt and Gougler picked it up, of if the Miller sons decided that simply selling it would be a good business move.

    3 - Miller Keyless Locks, Columbus. 1970s until perhaps the early 1980s. Again, I'd appreciate more precise dates if anybody knows. This was the Miller family not related to the original Miller family. Again, it's not clear why Gougler let go of their Keyless Locks Division. Perhaps they wanted to concentrate on their other products and the lock division just wasn't a big money maker.

    There is possibly a fourth era, between Gougler and the second Miller family. An eBay user "dtwiant" once implied that Gougler sold the lock division to 5 stockholders, who in turn sold it to the second Miller family. I haven't been able to corroborate this in any other source.

    I have a large (9 MB) set of notes and images on this, as a Word document, if anybody is interested.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
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    Cyberspace
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    1,318
    Country: Australia

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wylk View Post

    I have a large (9 MB) set of notes and images on this, as a Word document, if anybody is interested.
    If you wish to email it to me I'll post it on the site ....

  6. #6
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    Jan 2010
    Location
    Missouri
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    Country: United States

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by oldlock View Post
    If you wish to email it to me I'll post it on the site ....
    oldlock, if you post the word document on the site, could you post a reply in this thread with a link?

    wylk, thanks for all the info! I really appreciate it.

  7. #7
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    Default

    Here is the document that appears courtsey of wylk.
    Attached Files Attached Files

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
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    Default

    I started this collection of notes some time ago, with no regard to public release. To clarify, the "Bob Dix" list is a code list sent to me by another lock collector. I hesitate to make this public for security reasons, and I wonder if the few codes/combinations in my notes should be removed as well. Comments?

    And of course, any suggestions/additions/disagreements are welcome.

    Jim

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Seattle WA
    Posts
    1,327
    Country: United States

    Default

    Lock codes over 40-50 years ago have been out and are not a issue to me. You can buy a Reed code book online. These are out there and quite a few collectors have them or a copy of one. Also if someone is using one of these locks for security I would question that move in its own right as these locks are in the collector relm, not for security anymore. There are better locks in most cases out today. Some safe locks were better built that those in use today. Most of what I can see wouldn't worry me a bit and the little bit that is left is a minor thing.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1
    Country: United States

    Default need help with miller padlock

    Guys im new here ,I have a miller keyless lock no. on shackle is 0058.I have been looking for over a month and have found nothing.If anyone can help id be in your debt..the no. on side is 3510..Ive been fascinated with locks and safes since very young. thanks for your time

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