Are J.B. Miller and Gougler the same?

[samba3_11]

I just purchased a lock off E-Bay which looks like a Gougler. Looking at the back of the lock, it says J.B. Miller Keyless Lock Company. I compared it with a Gougler or 2 I saw on vintagecombinationlocks.com, and the town is the same (Kent, Ohio), and even stranger, it lists 2 patents on the back and they match between the J.B. Miller and the Gougler, so I was wondering, are they actually the same, but just branded differently?

Any information is appreciated! Thanks!

- Michael

[wylk]

Yes. The J.B. Miller Lock Company began in 1888, founded by James B. Miller. In 1944 or 1945 the company was taken over by the C. L. Gougler Company, also of Kent, which ran it as the C. L. Gougler Keyless Lock Company. In around the 1970s, Gougler got rid of the company which was then run by a family in Columbus coincindentally named Miller, who ran it as Miller Keyless Locks though some tags say Miller Industries Inc. They apparently went bankrupt and that was the end of things.

[samba3_11]

Let me make sure I understand the last part, Gougler was run by a family named Miller out of Columbus, and they were marking locks as Miller Keyless Lock Company, and then the company went bankrupt? Or, was Gougler bought out by this Miller family, and that's when they started running it under Miller Keyless Lock Company?

Also, when would this lock date to? It doesn't match the first J.B. Miller Lock Company, and it doesn't say Gougler, and it doesn't say Miller Keyless Lock Company. It's almost like a combination of the first and last?

Thanks for the info!

- Michael

[wylk]

The two Gouglers are probably from 1945 (when Gougler bought the JB Miller Lock Company) to the 1970s, when Gougler sold their lock division to the Millers of Columbus (not to be confused with the original company, JB Miller of Kent). These locks often have two codes. One is the factory code for the combination and is usually on the shackle, either on one side, or on early locks it's on the underside where it would get obliterated from wear. The second number is often longer and stamped on the case (e.g. your 11772) and is presumed to be a customer code used for tracking the lock (e.g. which locker, which student) which also would give the company or school the combination in case it was forgotten (thus not revealing the factory code).

Your Miller is newer, probably 1970s, to 1980s (when Miller went out of business).

I can't help with the Slaymaker.

Jim

[macbee]

I have 4 locks that I hope someone can provide some insight as to the age or approximate year of manufacture.

The first lock is a Gougler Red Dot with Westinghouse imprinted on the face. The back states "Gougler Keyless Locks, Kent, Ohio with the two patents 1,825,457 and 1, 929,598 listed on one line. The code for this lock is imprinted at the bottom of the case - not on front or back plate - on bottom - and is 11772. The shank appears to be hardened steel.

The second lock is also a Gougler Red Dot with Westinghouse imprinted on the face. The back is the same as the first with "Gougler Keyless Locks, Kent, Ohio and the same two patents listed on one line. However, the code is on the shank. It is difficult to make out. Guessing it to be 183, although with a little imagination it could be 194? This shank is rusty and pitted. It does not appear to be hardened steel. Because of the roughness of the shank it is difficult to read. There appears to be markings suggesting some word imprinted on the shank .... but it may just be ragged from wear.


The third lock is a Miller Red Dot. The back is imprinted with "Miller Keyless Locks, Columbus, Ohio. It also lists the same patent numbers on the same line. The code is on the shank and is 6002. The shank appears to be hardened steel. From the front of these 3 red dot locks, they all appear almost identical except for the one rusty shank.

The fourth lock is a Slaymaker with 4 pins on front face. The back is diamond etched and imprinted with "Slaymaker" and a second outlined oval shape has "Made in the U.S.A." The numbers on the face dial starts with 4, and continues through with 8,12,16,20,24,28,32,36,40,44,48. There is no noticable code imprinted anywhere on this lock.

Do the code numbers provide any indication as to the year of manufacture? Any ideas greatly appreciated! Thank you!

[wylk]

There were three distinct eras:

1 - J. B. Miller Keyless Lock Company, Kent. 1888-1944. Your lock would fit this era. The earliest advertisement for this style I've seen is from 1939. So a good guess would be 1939-1944 for your lock. The company was formed and run by James B. Miller until he died in 1927; his sons Ned and Jamie continued the company.

2 - Gougler Keyless Locks, Kent. 1945 until the 1970s (does anybody have a more precise date). It isn't clear to me if the Miller company went bankrupt and Gougler picked it up, of if the Miller sons decided that simply selling it would be a good business move.

3 - Miller Keyless Locks, Columbus. 1970s until perhaps the early 1980s. Again, I'd appreciate more precise dates if anybody knows. This was the Miller family not related to the original Miller family. Again, it's not clear why Gougler let go of their Keyless Locks Division. Perhaps they wanted to concentrate on their other products and the lock division just wasn't a big money maker.

There is possibly a fourth era, between Gougler and the second Miller family. An eBay user "dtwiant" once implied that Gougler sold the lock division to 5 stockholders, who in turn sold it to the second Miller family. I haven't been able to corroborate this in any other source.

I have a large (9 MB) set of notes and images on this, as a Word document, if anybody is interested.

[oldlock]

I have a large (9 MB) set of notes and images on this, as a Word document, if anybody is interested.

If you wish to email it to me I'll post it on the site ....

[samba3_11]

If you wish to email it to me I'll post it on the site ....

oldlock, if you post the word document on the site, could you post a reply in this thread with a link?

wylk, thanks for all the info! I really appreciate it.

[ssgtflo1]

There were three distinct eras:

1 - J. B. Miller Keyless Lock Company, Kent. 1888-1944. Your lock would fit this era. The earliest advertisement for this style I've seen is from 1939. So a good guess would be 1939-1944 for your lock. The company was formed and run by James B. Miller until he died in 1927; his sons Ned and Jamie continued the company.

2 - Gougler Keyless Locks, Kent. 1945 until the 1970s (does anybody have a more precise date). It isn't clear to me if the Miller company went bankrupt and Gougler picked it up, of if the Miller sons decided that simply selling it would be a good business move.

3 - Miller Keyless Locks, Columbus. 1970s until perhaps the early 1980s. Again, I'd appreciate more precise dates if anybody knows. This was the Miller family not related to the original Miller family. Again, it's not clear why Gougler let go of their Keyless Locks Division. Perhaps they wanted to concentrate on their other products and the lock division just wasn't a big money maker.

There is possibly a fourth era, between Gougler and the second Miller family. An eBay user "dtwiant" once implied that Gougler sold the lock division to 5 stockholders, who in turn sold it to the second Miller family. I haven't been able to corroborate this in any other source.

I have a large (9 MB) set of notes and images on this, as a Word document, if anybody is interested.

I am interested ...... ssgtflo1

[wylk]

I am interested ...... ssgtflo1

Darn, my Miller/Gougler/Miller doc has grown to the point I can't upload it to antique-locks (even though it is smaller than the stated limit). I have made it available for download via http://w3.uwyo.edu/~jimkirk/locations.html on a semi-temporary basis.