Hobbs & Co London - Padlock Manufacture Date?

[bacade]

I recently purchased a Hobbs & Co. padlock on EBAY. The lock came in its original box and wrapper and is in unused condition, with 2 original keys. The seller recently posted for sale 2 identical Hobbs & Co. locks, each new and in the original boxes with 2 original keys. Each of the three locks have different serial numbers. Does any one know the approximate date of manufacture of this padlock? I tried to upload images of my lock but the upload kept failing so I included the ebay link instead. I could not upload image in a PDF either. Maybe the file size is too big.

[Pschiffe]

I recently purchased a Hobbs & Co. padlock on EBAY. The lock came in its original box and wrapper and is in unused condition, with 2 original keys. The seller recently posted for sale 2 identical Hobbs & Co. locks, each new and in the original boxes with 2 original keys. Each of the three locks have different serial numbers. Does any one know the approximate date of manufacture of this padlock? I tried to upload images of my lock but the upload kept failing so I included the ebay link instead. I could not upload image in a PDF either. Maybe the file size is too big.

I copied your image from eBay see thumbnail attached, I have no experience with such matters, but since it is coming from India, I sincerely hope that they are not counterfeits!

Pete Schifferli

[bacade]

Thanks for helping out with the image. I am familiar with the counterfeit risk concerning locks from India but I think the precision quality of the lock and the keys, the original labeled box, all lead me to believe these locks are the real McCoy. If it is a counterfeit they did not cut any corners at all. Wish I could upload an image of the box cover. Is the max size for a file upload 2MB? I tried to compress the image to reduce the file size but that did not work either. Sorry about that. Never used to have upload problems before.

[KitBear]

Looks too well done to be fake Usually the keys are a huge indicator that it's fake. The stamping looks too clear and precise on the markings.

I'd be confident to say that it's real.

[bacade]

Thanks KitBear. I spent more time examining it very closely with a magnifying glass and the precision of the manufacturing is excellent in every aspect. What is the best way to find out the vintage of this model padlock? Note: The box label says Hobbs & Hart but the lock is stamped Hobbs & Co.

[Richard Phillips]

Thanks KitBear. I spent more time examining it very closely with a magnifying glass and the precision of the manufacturing is excellent in every aspect. What is the best way to find out the vintage of this model padlock? Note: The box label says Hobbs & Hart but the lock is stamped Hobbs & Co.

Hobbs insisted that all the company's locks be marked only 'HOBBS', but allowed that after his death, the legal name of the company could be changed, which it was. Members of the Hart family had been been managing the company for him since Hobbs had returned to USA. The company name remained Hobbs Hart & Co. until it 'joined' the Chubb Group in [1956(?)].

The keys for this look right; seems a good many genuine Chubb, and Hobbs, locks were used in India by the government (and especially the British army) pre-independance, providing many models for copying.

Some illiterate(?) workers could not decide whether they were making a 'Chubb' or a 'Hobbs', so settled for 'CHOBBS'!

[Syd Waterman]

Hi Daniel,
The remainder of Hobbs patent number 1902 contained details of safe locks, no additional info relating to cell locks.
Unfortunately I donÂ’t have any literature from the listing of manufacturers in your email. I was unaware that Wing & Webb were manufacturers of custodial locks.
One name that you left out from the listing was Chas. Smith & Sons.
One of the best ways to potentially date locks is by the design of the mechanism., related to a Patent .
If you post a picture of the mechanism of your Hobbs Blue lock ,itÂ’s possible that I will be able to pin it down to a Patent.
IÂ’m sure that itÂ’s just a typo. It ( referring to the blue lock)was removed, during a refit (a move to Chubb 4L45), from an HMP built during the 1500s.
Syd.

[Daniel John]

Hi again Syd

Yes, indeed, Wing & Webb did make cell locks. See the attached photos of several of their products. Fortunately, these two locks retain their original keys. What is most interesting about the one painted a cream colour (and with the maker's badge) is that it can be operated from both sides. But by the key only, not the handle. It is a double throw lock. When the bolt is fully withdrawn, the key cannot release it. Only by lifting the handle will the bolt shoot to its first position. That it can be unlocked from both sides, by the key, is thus peculiar given that it cannot (at least from what I can deduce) be locked (in terms of first throw) from both sides.

Ah, yes, I did overlook C. Smith. A prominent manufacturer of prison fittings, indeed. Have attached photos of several interesting Smith locks. The one with the large dial is perhaps the most impressive - five levers, and a very well made mechanism. I've encountered one other, in the collection of another member of the site. That member has informed me that literature regarding Smith is very difficult to come by.

Apologies re the info regarding provenance of the blue lock. To clarify, the lock was indeed removed from an institution built in the 1500s. But, of course, the lock would have been fitted sometime in, I suspect, the mid-to-late 1800s. And then removed in the 1940s, with the arrival of the Chubb 4L42.

Interesting regarding the patent info. I do have several Hobbs' safe locks, so would be great to see those other pages if that is possible.

Here is a photo showing internal view of blue Hobbs' lock, as requested.

Thanks again for the insights.