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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    137
    Country: France

    Default john tann's safe : need informations

    hi guys. came back from England with a beautiful (of course not in this condition) john tann, and very surprised by the weight of this one : very heavy for a compact size. no key with so need to cut one, work done today with some difficult, first because i am not familiar with this job and secondly because a part in the lock make me cut the key in a perpendicular way. this is my first type of lock.
    no idea of the period for this safe but heavy weight and when i knock on this is not the habitual hollow sound. i doubt this is fire proof material. sound like concrete but not matching with the construction.
    very interesting by details and original paint job for this model.

    thanks in advance
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails tann1.jpg   tann2.jpg   tann3.jpg  

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Aberdeenshire
    Posts
    697
    Country: Great Britain

    Default Tann List 2A (MM Quality)

    Quote Originally Posted by stephane View Post
    hi guys. came back from England with a beautiful (of course not in this condition) john tann, and very surprised by the weight of this one : very heavy for a compact size. no key with so need to cut one, work done today with some difficult, first because i am not familiar with this job and secondly because a part in the lock make me cut the key in a perpendicular way. this is my first type of lock.
    no idea of the period for this safe but heavy weight and when i knock on this is not the habitual hollow sound. i doubt this is fire proof material. sound like concrete but not matching with the construction.
    very interesting by details and original paint job for this model.

    thanks in advance
    Hello Stephane, this is a List 2a known in the factory as the 'MM' quality as it was Machine Made. It had a very extended production run from 1869 until 1900 and was probably the first British safe in which the body was bent from a single piece of wrought iron on each corner and then capped under an angle frame (as drawing).

    This is not the original lock as you can see from the photograph but is of equivalent quality, if not even better by having false notches. The original lock was patented in 1854 as the Reliance Patent and is still held in respect as being unpickable due to the guarded lever which gave you a little problem when cutting a key.

    The fireproofing will be the normal sawdust and salts mixture. The body plates are probably ¼'' thick which accounts for the weight.

    The serial number, if you want the actual date of manufacture, will be stamped into one of the moving bolts.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    137
    Country: France

    Default

    thanks Safeman for these great indications. i will be happy with the date of manufacture. serial # 3270. surprised with a so long life product i didn't found more photos of original condition just to have exemple of originals paint job !
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails tann4.jpg  

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Aberdeenshire
    Posts
    697
    Country: Great Britain

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by stephane View Post
    thanks Safeman for these great indications. i will be happy with the date of manufacture. serial # 3270. surprised with a so long life product i didn't found more photos of original condition just to have exemple of originals paint job !
    Good morning Stephane. The safe number 3270 was made in 1872. There should still be one or two about as there were 7225 of this model made in total. A very desirable safe of it's time having no visible joints to exploit in the outer body. This bent body technique was also adopted by the Hobbs Hart company in their early days in their Progress Range of safes.

    Here's a photograph of an original paint finish - Click image for larger version. 

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  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Aberdeenshire
    Posts
    697
    Country: Great Britain

    Default

    [QUOTE=safeman;31000]Good morning Stephane. The safe number 3270 was made in 1872. There should still be one or two about as there were 7225 of this model made in total. A very desirable safe of it's time having no visible joints to exploit in the outer body. This bent body technique was also adopted by the Hobbs Hart company in their early days in their Progress Range of safes.

    Stephane, in case you are interested in the protective plates around the lock in the original condition.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    137
    Country: France

    Default

    as usual thank you very much safeman for precious details ! i have removed the cover lock plate just for the photo, this one is complete and never has been open : original paint cover each bolts inside when i opened the back door so i think the lock is the original one.
    i saw more hobbs with this design than tank's. anyway i will be very proud to restore because more i look it, more i like it. very well made with minimal plays everywhere. i can simply pass a sheet of paper on every junction/play parts, very impressive for something in bad condition from 1872 !
    mine has same dark green under the plate so seem to be painted with the same color as your photo.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    1,755
    Country: Wales

    Default

    Another good find Stephane, I'm sure that many like me enjoy seeing your safe finds and quests to restore them.

    Like safeman says it was quite a formidable safe back in its day, and to be honest can still cause a few worries for pros even today. Very sturdy boltwork, mountings and fittings around the lock etc, not to mention the Reliance lock itself with that notorious guarded lever.
    I used to dread it when called up to open an old John Tann with lost keys and the customer answered my question "yes, it has got hinges on both sides of the door". They were never a half hour job !!

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    137
    Country: France

    Default

    thanks Huw. this is a real pleasure to work on this antique safes and very stimulating to imagine how the workers was conscientious. sometimes, even with modern tools it can be a heartache so in 1870 be so accurate and made something still serviable force respect.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Devon UK
    Posts
    3,117
    Country: UK

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by stephane View Post
    thanks Huw. this is a real pleasure to work on this antique safes and very stimulating to imagine how the workers was conscientious. sometimes, even with modern tools it can be a heartache so in 1870 be so accurate and made something still serviable force respect.
    Talking about tools, one of the bits I gleaned from the Chatwood archives at The History of Locks Museum was that during the war, apprentices had to take evening classes that the company specified (fair enough) and that even though they couldn’t actually find tools to buy, they still had to pay into a “tools fund” to buy their own tools after the war ended. The files had to be wire brushed regularly and when they were no longer serviceable they were sent to be recut!
    in some ways the Victorian locksmiths would have had things easier.

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