Chubb Safe information please from any gurus out there ?

[whitepointer]

Are there any numbers struck into the top edge of the door? If so those will tell you the weight.

Thank you for the reply Chubby but there is no numbers struck on the top edge of the door.

[whitepointer]

I downloaded the technical layout of the 6700 series. Then scaled it so that i could print off a precise template to scale. I then laid it over the mounting points and they all line up - except for the bolt, it doesn't come down far enough to engage with the mechanics of the safe door.

I see it states that the bolt throw is 8.9 mm but the template shows the bolt is considerably short when extended.

Should i be looking at some other substitute lock ?

Appreciate the advice.

[Huw Eastwood]

Nice job on the template, in that photo if you look at the tailbar where the bolt needs to extend to, it looks to have the hallmarks of being cut off with an angle grinder- note the darkened edge that's burnt the paint brown from the heat. That would figure if it was converted sometime from the smaller Chubb comb lock to make the bigger 6k75 lock fit.

So, what was there originally needs to be reinstated, so this is where any modifications or bodges that were made will have to be reversed if you want it back to the combination lock.

With an S&G 6730 fitted in position on the mount plate, you can offer up a suitably thick piece of mild steel to the tailbar, mark it to shape and size, and then cut it and file accordingly.
Note that You ideally want the point of contact down the centreline of the S&G bolt, not on the edges of it. You also want the point of contact a close fit, the tailbar plate sliding close to the bolt when it's withdrawn so maximum engagement when the bolt is thrown (extended down).

Once the plate is made, best to mark out for two fixings, drill and tap threads to fix the plate to the tailbar, say with two cap heads or hex bolts, then when everything is adjusted and all aligned up perfectly, tighten the two bolts, and remove the boltwork from the door. Finally it's tack weld the plate at a few points front and back, and then run good seam welds around the overlaps for maximum strength.

It's good practise to then clean the area up, remove any spatter (though even Chubb left it sometimes) give it all a spray over with a close match paint and you're good to go.

[Chubby]

What Huw has said with knobs on. He knows exactly what to do.

As you are considering putting on an S & G, so it won't be original and authentic, another approach would be to mount the lock in addition to the key lock. Making a new tail bolt to act with a second lock is scarcely any more work than amending the existing one. Obviously you would need to drill the door to accept the spindle, tap the back etc. but you would, then, have a dual control safe.

Whilst at it there is a very simply installed glass plate to suit all of the S & G locks. You could install that and route a dead aed.

Just a couple of thoughts.

[whitepointer]

What Huw has said with knobs on. He knows exactly what to do.

As you are considering putting on an S & G, so it won't be original and authentic, another approach would be to mount the lock in addition to the key lock. Making a new tail bolt to act with a second lock is scarcely any more work than amending the existing one. Obviously you would need to drill the door to accept the spindle, tap the back etc. but you would, then, have a dual control safe.

Whilst at it there is a very simply installed glass plate to suit all of the S & G locks. You could install that and route a dead aed.

Just a couple of thoughts.

Very clever, that is worthwhile looking at too. I am unsure how the glass plate would go in. is there a pic or diagram you could point me too ?

[Gary Stephenson]

According to one of the Australian sites, the Commerce line of safes being imported and sold in Australia and New Zealand were being made by Edwin Cotterill and fitted with Chubb locks.

[Huw Eastwood]

I was going to say it's more than likely a home market product of the late 50,s or 60s from their waterloo works in Sydney, as according to one dealers site (CitySafe)the Commerce was originally made in Australia and continued in similar configuration (with same style hinges and same handle position) for some time. quite a few examples are shown fitted with a modern handle and fascia trim. I reckon Redoubt would know, IIRC he was very knowledgeable on the Au and NZ markets.

[whitepointer]

Firstly thankyou @Huw Eastwood @Chubby @Gary Stephenson @safeman

Here are a few for sale that i found online:

Pic 1:

H715 x W540 x D620. Weight – 360kg. Has a LaGuard lock fitted

Pic 2a, Pic 2b:

H715mm high x W535mm wide x D590mm Weight - 400kg.

Pic 3:

Ext Dimensions: 715H X 535W X 590D; Int Dimensions: 560H X 380W X 360D. Weight: 390kg

Description: Chubb Commerce safe. Australian made fire and theft safe. Concrete filled. Heavy duty

Pic 4:

Chubb No5 Horn handle (eg: used on Stafford, Warwick, Commerce etc.)

[oldlock]

According to one of the Australian sites, the Commerce line of safes being imported and sold in Australia and New Zealand were being made by Edwin Cotterill and fitted with Chubb locks.

1910 / 1920 vintage commerce models. Not the ones shown.

[whitepointer]

Nice job on the template, in that photo if you look at the tailbar where the bolt needs to extend to, it looks to have the hallmarks of being cut off with an angle grinder- note the darkened edge that's burnt the paint brown from the heat. That would figure if it was converted sometime from the smaller Chubb comb lock to make the bigger 6k75 lock fit.

So, what was there originally needs to be reinstated, so this is where any modifications or bodges that were made will have to be reversed if you want it back to the combination lock.

With an S&G 6730 fitted in position on the mount plate, you can offer up a suitably thick piece of mild steel to the tailbar, mark it to shape and size, and then cut it and file accordingly.
Note that You ideally want the point of contact down the centreline of the S&G bolt, not on the edges of it. You also want the point of contact a close fit, the tailbar plate sliding close to the bolt when it's withdrawn so maximum engagement when the bolt is thrown (extended down).

Once the plate is made, best to mark out for two fixings, drill and tap threads to fix the plate to the tailbar, say with two cap heads or hex bolts, then when everything is adjusted and all aligned up perfectly, tighten the two bolts, and remove the boltwork from the door. Finally it's tack weld the plate at a few points front and back, and then run good seam welds around the overlaps for maximum strength.

It's good practise to then clean the area up, remove any spatter (though even Chubb left it sometimes) give it all a spray over with a close match paint and you're good to go.

Thank you Huw, your knowledge is fantastic.