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  1. #1
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    Default Samuel Withers Climax Detector key

    Hi all, I haven’t posted anything for a while so am catching up a bit. I have this key on eBay at the minute and it was suggested that I should post a few pics before “if” it goes its quite an interesting one as it’s an Edwin Cotterill Climax detector key but it’s for a Samuel Withers safe. I’ve never really seen another one so they must be fairly scarce or they’re all still being used I suppose. Here’s a few pictures in case it interests anybody
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 235D32B4-AE30-42FD-AD37-EE43A932AEF0.jpeg   855A815D-4E42-44DC-B6AC-1BF97D13B354.jpeg   A118C91F-CDEB-471F-8768-6AFC0607DBFD.jpeg  

  2. #2
    Huw Eastwood's Avatar
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    Well done warren, it's worth a shot here as it's definitely an interesting oddball for a Sam Withers safe. Of the hundreds, probably thousands of Withers we saw between us I can't recall one with a Climax Detector.

    My guess though, is that it's probably not a Cotterill but more likely one of the generic climax detectors used purely for the (invincible) marketing hype that was typical back then. I'm happy to be proved wrong though-hopefully someone will know and either way it's a winner as its definitely an unusual one!
    Last edited by Huw Eastwood; 17-10-18 at 11:36 PM. Reason: Spelling

  3. #3
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    Huw, do you think the W on the key is relevant to its date? Cotterills were dated but they had their date lettering on the centre of the bow where the shaft joined up. It may well mean my date is wrong unless Withers were using the same date system as Cotterill was using. I think I bought this off a guy who paid a small fortune for it and then put it back on eBay after a couple of months, losing a lot more than I paid for it may I add. If it doesn’t sell it’s getting polished and staying put in my collection, because you’ve just made me like it a lot more mate.

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    Huw Eastwood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warren63 View Post
    Huw, do you think the W on the key is relevant to its date? Cotterills were dated but they had their date lettering on the centre of the bow where the shaft joined up. It may well mean my date is wrong unless Withers were using the same date system as Cotterill was using.
    Well I think that too depends if they used a genuine Cotterill Climax or not.

    The many generic Climax Detectors had the matching letter stamps- everywhere, on the key, individual components;, cap, bolt, cylinder etc but don't think in their case it related to a dating system like Cotterill's did. There was more than likely a dozen or more workshops banging them out too, as that's how it was in the industry back then.

    If you collect safe keys and in particular, rare or interesting examples then tbh I cant see any logic in selling it.

  5. #5
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    So when you see all these Climax Detector locks on many safes they aren’t actually made by Cotterill unless they say Edwin Cotterills Climax Detector lock. I’m too trusting/naive/dateless that’s my problem. These safe makers were about as honest as my ex-wife’s solicitor ! I need you on a retainers fee so I can consult before I talk as much shite Huw 😀

  6. #6
    Huw Eastwood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warren63 View Post
    So when you see all these Climax Detector locks on many safes they aren’t actually made by Cotterill unless they say Edwin Cotterills Climax Detector lock.
    The generic climax detectors don't have any makers name and were usually marked 'patent climax detector' on the key and just 'climax detector' on the head of the bolt, but some bolts were blank except for the letter or number stamps.
    Mind you I think they were 'patent' and 'detector' in inverted commas as I don't think any patent really applied and I can't remember one ever having the detector fitted!

    Its probably no different to all the countless Bramah and Barron's patents that were copied, there were even makers that fitted Chubb till and cabinet locks to their safes just so they could try and use the name Chubb.

    Your Withers climax key could be a Cotterill though, what I'm speculating is simply possibility based on my own simple logic more than anything else, with 'simple' probably being the key word :-D

    1- Out of the countless SamWithers safes encountered I cannot recall one with any form of Climax Detector.
    2- 99.9% of those SamWithers encountered were all low grade offerings aimed toward the lower end of the market. You'll be hard pushed to find anything with even a half inch thick door plate let alone anything much thicker.
    3- so, bearing this in mind it would seem to me, more likely for them to have used cheap generic locks to get in on the action with the 'invincible', 'inviolable' hype etc and get themselves a slice of the pie, than to get roped up in a potentially costly and involving contract to use Cotterill's.

    But, there's always a but- stranger things have showed up,, like a Sam Withers Bankers type powder-proof lock, so perhaps they did make some obscure heavy range stuff and perhaps offer them with genuine Cotterill locks......who knows? Hopefully someone will...
    Last edited by Huw Eastwood; 18-10-18 at 05:48 PM.

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