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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    8
    Country: UK

    Smile About to aquire a Milner 212 Firesafe - help required

    Hi

    I have been offered a Milner Firesafe, and wondered if anyone can help me with the weight as I need to arange transport! Sadly I dont have any pics available. On the outside there are some stamped numbers: top left corner is K4315 and on the top right is 591.

    I have a key with no markings.

    If the colour helps its dark 'rusty' red and black, internally it's a 'grubby' yellow.

    There are 2 internal lockable drawers.

    On the front there is a handle to pull the door open and a separate locking handle to turn.

    Thanks for any assistance :(happy):

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Aberdeenshire
    Posts
    375
    Country: Great Britain

    Default

    [QUOTE=Marmite47;29913]Hi

    I have been offered a Milner Firesafe, and wondered if anyone can help me with the weight as I need to arange transport! Sadly I dont have any pics available. On the outside there are some stamped numbers: top left corner is K4315 and on the top right is 591.


    Weight dependent on dimensions and quality so need photos and sizes. Made in 1899.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    8
    Country: UK

    Default

    [QUOTE=safeman;29916]
    Quote Originally Posted by Marmite47 View Post
    Hi

    I have been offered a Milner Firesafe, and wondered if anyone can help me with the weight as I need to arange transport! Sadly I dont have any pics available. On the outside there are some stamped numbers: top left corner is K4315 and on the top right is 591.


    Weight dependent on dimensions and quality so need photos and sizes. Made in 1899.
    Thanks for confirming it's age, how is that worked out from the numbers I gave?

    Size is approx. 22" w x 22" d x 31" h

    The left hand drawer as you look at the pictures has the key broken inside the lock so I need to get that out also the drawer knob is missing, so any information on hoe to fix get replacement would be a help. I have a key for the righthand drawer.

    How can I find out any other info? or is there not much more to add!

    I will try and attach pictures
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails IMG_4877.jpg   IMG_4878.jpg   IMG_4879.jpg  

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Aberdeenshire
    Posts
    375
    Country: Great Britain

    Default

    [QUOTE=Marmite47;29917]
    Quote Originally Posted by safeman View Post

    Thanks for confirming it's age, how is that worked out from the numbers I gave?

    Size is approx. 22" w x 22" d x 31" h

    The left hand drawer as you look at the pictures has the key broken inside the lock so I need to get that out also the drawer knob is missing, so any information on hoe to fix get replacement would be a help. I have a key for the righthand drawer.

    How can I find out any other info? or is there not much more to add!

    I will try and attach pictures

    The weight will be about 5 cwts. The drawer locks just slide up and out with a little encouragement for new or repaired key.
    For a bit of basic Milner history try Gracesguide Milner Safe Co.on Google. They were the largest safe makers in the world at one time.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    8
    Country: UK

    Default

    [QUOTE=safeman;29918]
    Quote Originally Posted by Marmite47 View Post


    The weight will be about 5 cwts. The drawer locks just slide up and out with a little encouragement for new or repaired key.
    For a bit of basic Milner history try Gracesguide Milner Safe Co.on Google. They were the largest safe makers in the world at one time.
    Thanks re Google suggestion etc...

    Oh so even though the drawer is locked and in place I can slide the lock up? and then get a key replaced? That's great.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Aberdeenshire
    Posts
    375
    Country: Great Britain

    Default

    [QUOTE=Marmite47;29919]
    Quote Originally Posted by safeman View Post

    Thanks re Google suggestion etc...

    Oh so even though the drawer is locked and in place I can slide the lock up? and then get a key replaced? That's great.

    Sorry, didn't realise the drawer was locked. Will you be able to manipulate the broken key to either remove it or actually turn it to unlock?
    Forgot to mention that this is a List 2 Quality.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    8
    Country: UK

    Default

    [QUOTE=safeman;29920]
    Quote Originally Posted by Marmite47 View Post


    Sorry, didn't realise the drawer was locked. Will you be able to manipulate the broken key to either remove it or actually turn it to unlock?
    Forgot to mention that this is a List 2 Quality.
    That's ok, sorry if I didn't explain it clearly!

    Not sure yet I can see the broken off key in the hole - its not proud of the escutcheon plate, it looks like its in the 'position' where you normally would be pulling the key it out, I have some fine instrument screwdrivers not sure they would help or I could 'attach' something to the broken piece to remove.

    List 2 quality is that good / average?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Aberdeenshire
    Posts
    375
    Country: Great Britain

    Default

    [QUOTE=Marmite47;29921]
    Quote Originally Posted by safeman View Post

    That's ok, sorry if I didn't explain it clearly!

    Not sure yet I can see the broken off key in the hole - its not proud of the escutcheon plate, it looks like its in the 'position' where you normally would be pulling the key it out, I have some fine instrument screwdrivers not sure they would help or I could 'attach' something to the broken piece to remove.
    List 2 quality is that good / average?

    Narrow pointed tweezers or maybe even a magnet might do the trick or, if the bit of the key is in line with the opening tapping with a light hammer on the front plate might encourage it to move outwards.

    Milner's grades begin with a List 1 which is a top opening fire-resisting chest in various sizes.
    Next is your List 2 which is a fairly standard Document Safe for general commercial purposes, solicitors, church records etc. The List 3 has metal bands enclosing the body plates and a heavier bolt-on lockcase inside the door. and intended for the protection of cash as well as fire. This then progresses up through Lists 4, and 5 to the Bankers Grade.
    When yours was made at the turn of the Century most bodies were square on all sides but then progressed to bodies that were bent on all corners from one piece of steel making them more resistant to bursting open if falling among burning debris.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    8
    Country: UK

    Default

    [QUOTE=safeman;29922]
    Quote Originally Posted by Marmite47 View Post


    Narrow pointed tweezers or maybe even a magnet might do the trick or, if the bit of the key is in line with the opening tapping with a light hammer on the front plate might encourage it to move outwards.

    Milner's grades begin with a List 1 which is a top opening fire-resisting chest in various sizes.
    Next is your List 2 which is a fairly standard Document Safe for general commercial purposes, solicitors, church records etc. The List 3 has metal bands enclosing the body plates and a heavier bolt-on lockcase inside the door. and intended for the protection of cash as well as fire. This then progresses up through Lists 4, and 5 to the Bankers Grade.
    When yours was made at the turn of the Century most bodies were square on all sides but then progressed to bodies that were bent on all corners from one piece of steel making them more resistant to bursting open if falling among burning debris.
    Thanks for all your help and information. I'll try the options re the broken key. The safe has been delivered to my brothers for 'safe' keeping!

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Aberdeenshire
    Posts
    375
    Country: Great Britain

    Default

    [QUOTE=Marmite47;29923]
    Quote Originally Posted by safeman View Post

    Thanks for all your help and information. I'll try the options re the broken key. The safe has been delivered to my brothers for 'safe' keeping!

    As an afterthought, there must be a reason that the drawer key is broken. It could have been the wrong key for that lock and forced to breaking point, or it just could be that the drawer is jammed through overloading and that not being fully closed, the key was broken when trying to lock the drawer. The broken handle could be a clue.

    Either way, you may have to force entry. I don't particularly wish to give detailed instructions on how to follow that path until you have a result in recovering the broken section of the key.

    It has never ceased to surprise me how often there are pieces of interest at the back of overloaded drawer compartments.

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