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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2013
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    Default Needing Another Hard To Find Key Blank

    Hi Again

    Looking for another hard to find key blank.

    It is a Segal blank Ilco 1022L. It is the reverse of the standard easy to get Ilco 1022. Hoping someone might have some of these. Will buy as many as you would like to sell will be happy with whatever you have. Fits Vintage Bluegrass 44 push key padlock.

    Richard
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Bluegrass Padlock 07.jpg   Segal 1022L.jpg  

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
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    Tonawanda, NY, USA
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MrWizard View Post
    Hi Again

    Looking for another hard to find key blank.

    It is a Segal blank Ilco 1022L. It is the reverse of the standard easy to get Ilco 1022. Hoping someone might have some of these. Will buy as many as you would like to sell will be happy with whatever you have. Fits Vintage Bluegrass 44 push key padlock.
    Richard
    Here are some substitutions if that helps any:
    6 pin:
    68 Segal R22L Dominion 6SE5 Star SE10 Cole Nat'l 84KR Keil R102A Taylor R1022L Ilco R1022AB Ilco
    5 pin:
    K8 Segal R102 Taylor SEG 3 JMA
    Ilco R1022L is extant and should be available from larger distributors, MSRP $312.15/C.

    Pete Schifferli

  3. #3
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    Oct 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrWizard View Post
    Hi Again
    Looking for another hard to find key blank.
    It is a Segal blank Ilco 1022L. It is the reverse of the standard easy to get Ilco 1022. Hoping someone might have some of these. Will buy as many as you would like to sell will be happy with whatever you have. Fits Vintage Bluegrass 44 push key padlock.
    Richard
    When I wrote my previous reply, this old mind forgot a detail which will be helpful. The reverse of the K9 Segal (1022/SE1 Ilco) is the readily available 981 Russwin (5981R/RU4 Ilco). 981 was Russwin's (then Russell & Erwin Co., now Corbin Russwin) stock keyway from 1938 to 1965. As the story goes, when New York City Police Officer Sam Segal founded Segal Lock & Hardware Co. in 1926, he had their early cylinders private-labeled by Russell & Erwin who furnished them in the reverse of their 852 keyway which had been stock from about 1912 to 1938. For some history of Segal and a link to their 1929 catalog in PDF format, go here:
    http://www.segallock.com/history.shtml

    Pete Schifferli

  4. #4
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    May 2013
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    Country: United States

    Default Needing Another Hard To Find Key

    Pete thanks that is a lot of substitutes to look for. A few days ago before I posted here I did look through all the blanks in the ilco catalog for something that would be close that I would readily have available I could modify. Funny thing is Russwin 5981R was the one that looked the most promising I have boxes of. The top section looked really close the bottom section was not as large by a lot looking at the actual Taylor SE1 I have and would not go into the locks. But it was close so got out my files. After a lot of filing was able to get it to go into 3 of the 4 locks that I have. Each one had different wear so had to continue filing to make it work on all of those 3. The 4th one it was way harder to get it to fit by a long shot. So much so was about to just give up. Had to file it down even in thickness which I didn't have to do with the other 3.

    What I originally had done to check the keyway was cut the head off of the Taylor SE1 -1022 that I have, ground the tip to match the original end and it went in effortless with lots of wiggle room into all 4 locks. So I made temporary keys like this to fit keys to the locks so when real blanks came along I could just copy the cuts and be done with it, the blanks never arrived. You are thinking if you cut the head off how did you make working keys. I drilled small hole on the original end of the key put tiny split ring in it that acts as a shoulder stopping point and added a larger ring to be able to pull it out. Reminds me of a hand grenade pull pin. Being push key locks you don't need a head on the key you just put the key in and pull on the shackle. See pictures works effortlessly using the Taylor SE1 - 1022 blank. These locks may not be real Segal keyways so is likely why the 981 doesn't work out of the box in them.

    Now finding out as you say that the Russwin 5981R are suppose to be actually made for Segal and don't fit these locks wonder of Ilco 1022L will be identically made like 981 and not go into these locks like the Taylor SE1 cut off and reversed do. I don't have an actual Ilco 1022 to cut off and reversed to check it. Sure would be bad news if I had ordered the Ilco 1022L from ilco at their insane price and they wouldn't work any better than the real Russwin 5981R I have. Was quoted from Ilco $3.70 each minimum order of 40 and 6 to 8 weeks out for delivery. That total comes to $148.00 plus shipping are they insane?

    I was hoping to be able to get blanks that fit perfectly like these reversed Taylor SE1 do but now concerned that Ilco 1022L will not work like the reversed Taylor SE 1 do if they come identical to 5981R. So with all that being said I would like to get at least one real Ilco 1022L to check it but doubt that is going to happen. Wanted to be able to make keys without doing any blank modification on future locks like these I may get or that someone else has that wants me to make keys for them.

    As you can see the Blank Comparison of the Taylor SE1 and original Russwin 5981R is very different. If the Ilco 1022L isn't like the SE1 but reversed it will be no use to me. So hope to get one to try.

    Richard
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Blue Grass BG 44 Plain Thick Shackle With Keys 01.jpg   Blue Grass BG 44 Plain Thick Shackle With Keys 03.jpg   Blue Grass BG 44 Plain Thick Shackle With Keys 04.jpg   Blue Grass BG 44 Plain Thick Shackle With Keys 02.jpg   All Bluegrass Locks With Keys 02.jpg  

    Blank Comparison 01.jpg   Blank Comparison 02.jpg  

  5. #5
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    Oct 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrWizard View Post
    As you can see the Blank Comparison of the Taylor SE1 and original Russwin 5981R is very different. If the Ilco 1022L isn't like the SE1 but reversed it will be no use to me. So hope to get one to try.
    Richard
    Richard,
    Some other common keys that have similar millings to the Russwin 981 (Ilco 1011P/RU4) you might try are:
    • Russwin 852 (Ilco 1011/RU1)
    • Corbin 97 (Ilco 1001/CO5)
    • Corbin 99 (Ilco 1000/CO1)
    • Sargent 265R (Ilco A1008/S1)
    • Wilson Bohannan KB6A (Ilco 1071/W1)

    See thumbnail attached.

    Pete Schifferli
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails IlcoRCkeywayCompatibleKeys.jpg  

  6. #6
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    Nov 2013
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    california
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    Default

    the ilco 1022 fits the same form in the prolock key check as talor and these others. how accurate ? i have 2 of the o1022 ilco that are different,not sure what they fit ?
    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	19602the ru4 did not fit the form. If the o1022 will work ? pm me?

  7. #7
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    May 2013
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    Country: United States

    Default Ilco 1022L Blanks

    Ilco 1022L is the reverse of the Ilco 1022 which is stupid numbering you would think L would be a longer version of the same thing. It should have been named 1022R if anything.

    The 1022L is listed in their 12th edition catalog which means they still make it. But yet appears they don't have any made and want $3.70 each for them min order of 40 and say 6 to 8 weeks out to get them I know it will be much longer than that. To demand $148.00 plus shipping to get keys listed in the current catalog is insane it is the reverse of a 1022 that they have in current stock can't be that hard to setup to make these 1022L.

    Until I can get just one to check to be sure it will fit all of these padlock I would never order them at that price.

  8. #8
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    Oct 2010
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    Tonawanda, NY, USA
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nathanbonstein View Post
    the ilco 1022 fits the same form in the prolock key check as talor and these others. how accurate ? i have 2 of the o1022 ilco that are different,not sure what they fit ?
    the ru4 did not fit the form. If the o1022 will work ? pm me?
    In the Ilco Catalog No. 12 (c) 1941, both 1022 and 01022 are listed for Segal but 01022 has "Dexter" under it! In the current Ilco Key Blank Directory 12th Edition (c) 2010, 1022 has an EZ# of SE1 while O1022 has an EZ# of SE2, apparently an alternate keyway used by Segal?

    Pete Schifferli

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pschiffe View Post
    In the Ilco Catalog No. 12 (c) 1941, both 1022 and 01022 are listed for Segal but 01022 has "Dexter" under it! In the current Ilco Key Blank Directory 12th Edition (c) 2010, 1022 has an EZ# of SE1 while O1022 has an EZ# of SE2, apparently an alternate keyway used by Segal?
    Pete Schifferli
    See thumbnail of Segal Lock & Hardware Co. catalog ca. 1929, pg. 116. Ilco O1022/SE2 crosses to Segal K5. Note that they also show MK5, apparently the masterkey bow for K5 which suggests that keyway was likely used for commercial applications requiring masterkeying.

    Pete Schifferli
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails SegalKeyBlanksCa.1929.jpg  

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
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    714
    Country: United States

    Default Needing Another Hard To Find Key Blank

    Richard
    I check a few padlock found one as you look at the key may be ILCO blank. Can't read key number to well. Also have you check into ILCO blank key...??...Maybe like this one X1054KR may be close....Timothy......
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails vintage-belknap-bg-bluegrass-44_1_4845a0ddf969060413751923b7fdad5d.jpg   vintage-belknap-bg-bluegrass-44_1_4845a0ddf969060413751923b7fdad5d3.jpg   ILCO X1054KR Blank.jpg  

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