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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Tonawanda, NY, USA
    Posts
    743
    Country: United States

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nathanbonstein View Post
    maybe a yale J,they are v5-6 pin,if it fits then find the 4 pin - 5 pin # ???
    Nathan,
    J is not a simplex key section but rather the designation for the J-series multiplex family JA, JB, JC, JD, JE, JF, JG, JH & JK with the all-section master as JMK, made in 3, 4, 5 & 6-pin versions; see thumbnail attached

    Pete Schifferli
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails YaleSuretySmallKeyways.jpg  

  2. #12
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    29
    Country: United States

    Default Yale PL Blank

    Good to know the Old Ilco 997BA number for the Yale PL blank. Thanks for finding that. Still is the full size key with standard large head and blade height. Wondering what the Yale or Ilco number is for the small blank that the head and blade height is the size of like a Yale JA or X10 1/2 blank surprised they made both large and small in the PL keyway. Thinking it might be EN10 PL?

    Richard

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Tonawanda, NY, USA
    Posts
    743
    Country: United States

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MrWizard View Post
    Good to know the Old Ilco 997BA number for the Yale PL blank. Thanks for finding that. Still is the full size key with standard large head and blade height. Wondering what the Yale or Ilco number is for the small blank that the head and blade height is the size of like a Yale JA or X10 1/2 blank surprised they made both large and small in the PL keyway. Thinking it might be EN10 PL?
    Richard
    997BA is the small size (.40 dia. plug) key. In theory the Yale nomenclature would be RN10PL (4-pin) but if it is indeed denoted as PL section, it is long obsolete and/or end-user restricted. Note that the RN prefix denotes round bow nickel silver while EN is for the Eaton bow nickel silver which was used when Yale was owned by Eaton Corp. from about 1963 to 1979, but discontinued subsequent to that date under yet another change in ownership.

    Pete Schifferli

  4. #14
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    29
    Country: United States

    Default Yale PL Blanks

    Pete

    Thanks for all that clarification. RN = Round Nickel silver 10 being .40 dia plug. Thus RN11 = .50 dia. EN = Eaton Nickel.

    Eaton made those never popular offset square head bow that hang crooked on the keyring. I have boxes of them I could never sell. What were they thinking with those.

    Richard
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Yale EN Blanks 02.jpg  

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Tonawanda, NY, USA
    Posts
    743
    Country: United States

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MrWizard View Post
    Pete
    Thanks for all that clarification. RN = Round Nickel silver 10 being .40 dia plug. Thus RN11 = .50 dia. EN = Eaton Nickel.
    Richard
    The integer or basic model number embedded within the catalog number of Yale pin tumbler key blanks denotes both the plug diameter and number of pins, the most common being:
    • 8 = 5-pin, .51" dia
    • 9 = 4-pin, .51" dia
    • 10 = 4-pin, .40" dia
    • 11 = 6-pin, .51" dia
    • 12 = 6-pin, .40" dia
    • 13 = 6-pin, .40" dia
    • 19 = 3-pin, .40" dia
    • 117 = 7-pin, .51" dia
    • 118 = 8-pin, .51" dia
    • 211 = 7-3/4 pin, .51" dia
    • 411 = 7-1/2 pin, .51" dia

    The .40" dia. plugs were mainly used on cabinet locks, a business that Yale exited decades ago.

    See pdf Yale Cylinders/Keys - Cylinders and Keying Manual at the link, note especially pgs. 19-21:
    http://content.assaabloyusa.com/cs/g...dss1013399.pdf

    Pete Schifferli

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    17
    Country: United States

    Default

    It's been a long time and my memory isn't as sharp as it once was, but hopefully Billy Edwards will show up before long and either confirm or dispute what follows. I defer to him in advance.

    As I think someone said, P is a proprietary multiplex sectional series (PA thru PH). While there is a PMK blank that passes all P multiplex keyways, there is no corresponding keyway that accepts only the PMK blank. The is also an L proprietary sectional series and LMK blank.

    Page 21 in the document Pete referenced in post #15, shows the G, S and T multiplex keyways, their associated xMK blanks and a GST blank that passes ALL the G, S and T multiplex keyways. Note that while each group has a xMK blank, the GST blank is not marked GSTMK.

    Not shown are GS, ST and GT blanks, each passing the indicated groups of keyways. They exist, but are rarely used. Again, take notice of the 2-letter indicators without the trailing MK.

    Take a close look at the pictures of the RN11PL blanks from post #4. It could be these old eyes, but they appear to be multi-section MK blanks; probably passing all P and L multiplex keyways.


  7. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Tonawanda, NY, USA
    Posts
    743
    Country: United States

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Grayhair View Post
    It's been a long time and my memory isn't as sharp as it once was, but hopefully Billy Edwards will show up before long and either confirm or dispute what follows. I defer to him in advance.

    As I think someone said, P is a proprietary multiplex sectional series (PA thru PH). While there is a PMK blank that passes all P multiplex keyways, there is no corresponding keyway that accepts only the PMK blank. The is also an L proprietary sectional series and LMK blank.

    Page 21 in the document Pete referenced in post #15, shows the G, S and T multiplex keyways, their associated xMK blanks and a GST blank that passes ALL the G, S and T multiplex keyways. Note that while each group has a xMK blank, the GST blank is not marked GSTMK.

    Not shown are GS, ST and GT blanks, each passing the indicated groups of keyways. They exist, but are rarely used. Again, take notice of the 2-letter indicators without the trailing MK.

    Take a close look at the pictures of the RN11PL blanks from post #4. It could be these old eyes, but they appear to be multi-section MK blanks; probably passing all P and L multiplex keyways.

    I wouldn't pretend to be as knowledgeable as BBE but I can tell you that the V-Series is the reverse of the G-Series, the Y-Series is the reverse of the S-Series and the Z-Series is the reverse of the T-Series. Also the K-Series is the reverse of the J-Series. Manufacturers can save tooling and design costs by reversing the same milling cutters used in production and thereby create new keyways. As you surmise, there are also L-Series and P-Series which are restricted. I agree with your supposition that PL is indeed the multi-milled master to fit both L and P-Series. I actually had a couple in stock which I had forgotten and they are indeed RN11PL, see thumbnail attached.

    Pete Schifferli
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails YaleRN11PLblank.jpg  

  8. #18

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pschiffe View Post
    I wouldn't pretend to be as knowledgeable as BBE but I can tell you that the V-Series is the reverse of the G-Series, the Y-Series is the reverse of the S-Series and the Z-Series is the reverse of the T-Series. Also the K-Series is the reverse of the J-Series. Manufacturers can save tooling and design costs by reversing the same milling cutters used in production and thereby create new keyways. As you surmise, there are also L-Series and P-Series which are restricted. I agree with your supposition that PL is indeed the multi-milled master to fit both L and P-Series. I actually had a couple in stock which I had forgotten and they are indeed RN11PL, see thumbnail attached.

    Pete Schifferli
    There are three standard triple multiplex key sections made by Yale. The most commonly known for .51"plugs are the GST and the reverse VYZ. Less commonly known is the GLP. L and P were designed in error and can actually enter various GST keyways and for that reason were very seldom used once the interchange was discovered.

    There are 9 individual sections in each multiplex named with a first letter that indicates the family it is part of, e.g., GA, GB, GC, GD, GE, GF , GG, GH and GK were the first 9 designed in 1892. The original names were not GA through GK. The GA was originally named G1R, GB was G1L, GC was G2R, GD was 2L, GE was G3R, GF was G3L, GG was G4, GH was G5 and GK was G6. Those first names we much too hard to remember and were only used until 1896.
    BBE.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    29
    Country: United States

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Grayhair View Post
    It's been a long time and my memory isn't as sharp as it once was, but hopefully Billy Edwards will show up before long and either confirm or dispute what follows. I defer to him in advance.

    As I think someone said, P is a proprietary multiplex sectional series (PA thru PH). While there is a PMK blank that passes all P multiplex keyways, there is no corresponding keyway that accepts only the PMK blank. The is also an L proprietary sectional series and LMK blank.

    Page 21 in the document Pete referenced in post #15, shows the G, S and T multiplex keyways, their associated xMK blanks and a GST blank that passes ALL the G, S and T multiplex keyways. Note that while each group has a xMK blank, the GST blank is not marked GSTMK.

    Not shown are GS, ST and GT blanks, each passing the indicated groups of keyways. They exist, but are rarely used. Again, take notice of the 2-letter indicators without the trailing MK.

    Take a close look at the pictures of the RN11PL blanks from post #4. It could be these old eyes, but they appear to be multi-section MK blanks; probably passing all P and L multiplex keyways.

    Thanks very interesting and see that they
    are multi section MK blanks makes sense being marked PL now.

    Still waiting for this box of RN11PL to arrive should be here today. I am still looking for the smaller RN10PL blanks if anyone runs across them.

    Richard

  10. #20
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    61
    Country: Canada

    Default

    Have you found satisfactory key blanks yet?
    If not, I may have some that might fit.
    They are unmarked about .240" high and .856" long.
    I will add photos.
    If you think that they will fit I can send you a couple.
    PM me your address.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails key1.jpg   key2.jpg   key3.jpg  

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