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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    2
    Country: Bulgaria

    Default Need help about Milners Patent .. i am beginner

    Hello everybody, i need help about my new safe Milners Patent ... I want to renovate this old safe but i dont know what is real colour, when it was produced, what is security level of this lock ,what is the weight ..... what is shape and material of the key because my is not original
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  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Bulgaria
    Posts
    686
    Country: Bulgaria

    Default Colour

    I think it would have been dark green. If you are restoring the safe you will need to remove the escutcheon and plaque to get those cleaned up. You will see the original colour when those are removed.

    An old Milner lock will defeat most burglars.

    It could be a worthwhile project. Do you have keys for the drawers?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    1,755
    Country: Wales

    Default

    Hello and welcome Paio, your Milners looks like a List 3 Strong Holdfast.

    The original keys were a bright steel, not plated, and usually had a distinctive bow shape with the oval stretched slightly where it joins the key stem, like the key blank pictured below.

    They also used pipe keys where a hole up the end of the key fitted over a fixed drill-pin in the lock, not sure which yours is.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Not sure on your handle, if it's original it's certainly missing the rose (round back-plate), but many also had brass knob styles handles instead of the lever.

    You'll need to find the serial number to narrow the date down, look on the top of the door, on the edge and to the right near the top hinge carriage.

    Think the bodies were often black but they used green or maroon for doors and insides were nearly always a beige/buff brown on the ones I saw.

    The powder-proof lock isn't to any recognisable security level but they are amazingly pick resistant, solid and incredibly durable. I still cannot recall ever seeing a broken lever spring in a Milners lock and I literally saw hundreds of them!

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    293
    Country: UK

    Default

    The dovetail inserts are to tie the sides of the safe to the door, to avoid a thief hammering in chisels and wedges to split the plate of the safe wall away.
    Obviously the thick bands around front and back also protect against this.

    Once construction techniques improved to allow the corners to be folded out of one piece of steel, this method of entry became difficult if not impossible.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Aberdeenshire
    Posts
    697
    Country: Great Britain

    Default Your Milner Holdfast.

    Hello Paio, as Huw says the age of the safe can be found from the serial numbers. Here is exactly where these can be found.
    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	18818 The numbers on the left are the lock serial number and the right the safe serial number. In this case the number A4748 is for 1889.

    If you give me the height of the safe I can give you an approximate weight.
    This is roughly what the safe would have looked like with the original handle.
    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	18819 Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	18820 .... and this shows the paint finish of an
    improved bent bodied model from the 1920's.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    2
    Country: Bulgaria

    Default

    Hello, i am already finish with sandblasting and now i have new pictures .... i find more marks under the old paint ...... What you think ... is this possible and how will look if i chose black colour and use chemical oxidation instead of paint ... Does anyone know what it means : " SHELTON BEST"?
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  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Aberdeenshire
    Posts
    697
    Country: Great Britain

    Default Splendid photographs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paio View Post
    Hello, i am already finish with sandblasting and now i have new pictures .... i find more marks under the old paint ...... What you think ... is this possible and how will look if i chose black colour and use chemical oxidation instead of paint ... Does anyone know what it means : " SHELTON BEST"?
    Piao, what a great series of pictures. I worked with mainly Milner safes for 45 years before I retired and I've never seen such manufacturing detail before.

    First, the lock number 159250 dates from within a year either side to 1877 and is a Type B as indicated. The other number could relate to this being the 2904th safe made in that year. The position of the numbers may have been transposed when the code letter for the year was introduced in 1889.

    The material is wrought iron the grain of which is clearly shown in the detail. The use of hinges as opposed to carriages and centres is very much stronger against forcing the door by wedges and levers which was the most prevalent method at the time.

    Milners Safes suffered a setback when in 1865 one of their earlier Holdfasts was opened with apparent ease in the Cornhill Robbery*. This incident brought about a surge in improvements of door strength by all makers resulting in over 30 new patents, one of which was the use of the anti-wedging blocks around the door, the idea of a Manchester Detective and patented by Milner but never pursued which allowed the wedges to be used by other makers such as Whitfield.

    The weight will be 9 cwts as stamped on the door. I have no explanation for the name Shelton Bas. although I'm inclined to think it's the mark of the Iron Merchant. Individual makers of the doors, bodies, and linings usually use their personal codes as can also be seen.

    *http://www.safeman.org.uk/cornhillrobbery.htm

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Aberdeenshire
    Posts
    697
    Country: Great Britain

    Default Milner's Iron Merchant.

    Click image for larger version. 

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