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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Posts
    6
    Country: England

    Question Need help with 8 big safes

    Hi everyone,

    We've just acquired a commercial building and in it we have 8 big safes. There are several makes of safes and the chubbs safe have serial numbers on them, but the problem is I cant find any information as the prefixes dont match with the ones on the internet.

    Im looking to get some information as to the cash rating of them, weight etc so that we can plan to either get them removed or to sell them on (preferably if they worth anything).

    I have attached some photos on so if anyone knows anything about them i would greatly appreciate it.

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ID:	18566Chatwood Milner type 6220
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ID:	18567Chubbs (no serial number)
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ID:	18568Chubbs Serial D4908
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ID:	18569Remington Rand (no serial number)
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ID:	18570Stratford sterling (not sure if this is serial number SE 73012)
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ID:	185712 x chubbs serial number H870 and H879
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ID:	18572Ratner

    I have more photos if required and I have 6 keys out of the 8 and all are open. Any advice info would be appreciated :)

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    1,232
    Country: Wales

    Default

    Hello stevenkuk, I'm unable to add much from memory and as you've researched them you will already know that with the exception of the Chubb (pic #2), the Stratford Sterling and the Ratner, which are decent burglary resistive cash safes, all the others are large fire resistant safes intended for fire protection of paper documents. They were often called 'record protection cabinets' back in the day, the term 'cabinet' being the hint as to their focus of importance of fire protection over security.

    You will probably find you'll get more interest in the cash safes than the others, but often any value takes a big hit against the cost/work involved in moving them, unless of course your business specialises in heavy lifting/moving equipment!

    The Chubb in pic 2 with the distinctive hinges, from memory they made a few varying models of that appearance, from a lower range Commerce to a pretty heavy build anti-blowpipe (ABP). The latter had similar hinges but were even thicker IIRC, but without numbers and unable to see door/body thickness difficult to tell.

    Stratford made several versions of the Sterling, four in total IIRC, if the serial number you've posted is correct its probably a later Mk4 version. Might have a Sterling brochure, plus similar Chubb for idea of weights, and possibly the Chatwood Milner, but unfortunately be a while before I can look for them.
    Huw

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Posts
    6
    Country: England

    Default

    Thank you Hew! that was very helpful and I appreciate the info on the fire resistant cabinets.

    The building is is being completely renovated with escalators being removed so even though we don't specialise in heavy lifting and machinery, we may be able to get them moved at the same time by the workmen! (Its on the second floor as well! )

    For the chubb, I do have a photo of the doors

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ID:	18581

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    and also the number thats on the stratford. (as you can see it looks like someone just stuck it on hence why im not sure if its the serial number)

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ID:	18584

    If you do come across the stratford brochure that would be very helpful as it would make a big difference to find out if these cabinets and safes weigh closer to 4000kg or 1000kg.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    1,232
    Country: Wales

    Default

    Just checked my own notes/drawings and your Chubb (pictured with door open) looks same as the 'Standard ABP', but the one I saw had a chrome backplate under the handle and keyhole escutcheon. Door was 1.75 inch outer protective slab, and the boltcase housing the mechanism and back pan another 4.75 inches, so door was 6.5 inches thick overall.

    Some Stratfords can be a pain to ID and date, as mentioned here:
    https://www.antique-locks.com/showth...light=Sterling

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    445
    Country: Bulgaria

    Default

    I have a Sterling brochure somewhere.

    Details from the brochure:



    The big size- which is 700mm wide is effectively a ton.Nice safe. The door is the strongest part. I wouldn't necessarily believe that a dymo label on the outside is the serial number of the safe. Of course it could be.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Bournemouth, UK
    Posts
    420
    Country: UK

    Default

    Chubby, do please forward me the brochure and I will be pleased to insert it.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    leeds
    Posts
    188
    Country: Great Britain

    Default

    For the chubb a picture of the inside boltwork by opening the back chamber would enable us to id it, but if not am thinking commerce or abp
    Careful with rem rand as I think they have asbestos in the fill.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Devon UK
    Posts
    2,941
    Country: UK

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Stephenson View Post
    For the chubb a picture of the inside boltwork by opening the back chamber would enable us to id it, but if not am thinking commerce or abp
    Careful with rem rand as I think they have asbestos in the fill.
    His belief in the abilities of his builders to shift these safes is probably optimistic. And I think that Stevenkuk is going to find it a costly business to get these 3 safes removed from the second floor especially as the fire safes will be dumped.
    if someone can estimate their weights then the realities of removing them will be clearer. Sorry to be the bearer of unwanted news but this is the nub of what he was asking.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    1,232
    Country: Wales

    Default

    Just realised, stevenkuk you haven't given us any heights or dimensions for any of them. I'm trawling through crates of chubb and CM right now, no exact matches so far but I've found what looks like the Chatwood-Milner in pic 1 badged as Chubb 6220, so weight should be similar- is yours 73 inches tall X 29 3/8 inches wide? if so then 712kg.

    What are the heights and widths of the others?
    I've found similar for the Chubb in pic 3, if around 38.5 inches tall X 24.5 wide then it's a lightweight at 260kg.

    Tbh none of them (not even the Ratner) are going to be anywhere near 4000kg, but I can understand how knowing the weights beforehand will help with assisting the contractors. Since you mentioned them removing the escalators, they're presumably not your average 'general builders' so will hopefully be okay as IIRC escalators can only be dismantled so far and then removed in complete sections, the safes might even prove the easy part !
    Last edited by Huw Eastwood; 23-09-17 at 11:28 AM.
    Huw

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Aberdeenshire
    Posts
    254
    Country: Great Britain

    Default

    Stratford SE 73012 will be a size 3520 made in 1972 and weigh about 970 kg.
    The Ratner will be a size 5020 and if the code on the bolt end is SUR it will be an Executive, and if STR it will be a Trustee.

    The weights will be very similar at around 1600 kgs.

    The Cash Ratings will be approximately 4000 for the Sterling, 8000 for the Executive and 10000 for the Trustee but my personal belief is that these Ratner figures are unrealistically high.

    The Chubb safe has a code stamped in the middle bolt but I cannot make it out and in any case I don't have the codings before 1964.

    Click image for larger version. 

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