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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Hartford CT
    Posts
    153
    Country: United States

    Default F.Whitfield's Safe

    Sorry for the poor pictures, as I have not encountered the safe yet. I'm inquiring about information on the lock, or better yet an inside picture of the bolt-work mechanism so I can see how it interacts with the lock.

    I've just done a little research on Whitfield safes, but never have seen one before. It seems this is a later model since the key would indicate a lever lock. The tech who contacted me said he scoped the lock and it seems to have 6 levers.

    Any information would be helpful as the owner's key no longer operates and he is locked out. Traveling far on Friday to open this.

    TIA, DH
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 1.JPG   2.JPG   3.JPG  

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    1,232
    Country: Wales

    Default

    David, I know i have a drawing of the powder proof lock off a banded Whitfield with the open 'v' keyway (like Milners) somewhere on file, but not sure what's on your one from the photos there. I might have drawings for others as well.
    I will have a look at what I can find on the weekend, haven't got any photos though.

    If your safe has one of the more basic locks (without the open 'v' keyway) and the owners key has suddenly stopped working, then it could well be a broken lever spring. They rarely ever break on the open 'v' powder proof locks though.
    Huw

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    1,232
    Country: Wales

    Default

    Just a few more thoughts David, you say another tech has scoped the lock so has it got a bolt thrower (curtain) and presumably it's a down shoot bolt?

    PP lock will have a bolt thrower and down shoot but If it's a more basic 6-lever it won't have a thrower and could be up or down.

    The lock might simply be half thrown- very common on worn safe locks that age, especially those with keys that have been copied countless times off other keys, just a couple of possibilities not knowing for sure what lock you've got.
    PP locks never half throw though, but you'll know if it is or not whether it has a bolt thrower.
    Huw

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Hartford CT
    Posts
    153
    Country: United States

    Default

    Huw, thank you for posting your thoughts, I'm opening this one tomorrow. Guessing no curtain as the tech probably would not be capable of counting the levers if so, I don't know??

    I did find some information searching here on a couple Whitfield lever locks (non Mappins, Cotterill types) from the Bill Stanton collection. I don't think these are a match to what I have to open. See attached.

    Pardon my ignorance on lever lock terms, but I don't understand what you mean by Open V grove keyway, or PP lock?

    DH
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails whi001-01.jpg   whi001.jpg   whi003-01.jpg   whi003.jpg  

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    leeds
    Posts
    188
    Country: Great Britain

    Default

    Handle position looks like it could be open or part open, this may be why lock will not turn, check to see if door or boltwork is just jammed.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    1,232
    Country: Wales

    Default

    Well spotted Gary, I was focusing on the keyhole to the point of going cross eyed, and totally missed the position of the handle!

    Sorry David, PP= powder proof
    The lock on the banded Whitfield I mentioned was like Milners powderproof where the key enters in different positions when locked and unlocked, in a sort of 'open v' shape. Well, sort of.
    Yours could well be a more basic lock but either way and whatever's wrong with it I can't see it giving you any real trouble, it's not anything like the box of tricks like many you have worked on.
    Huw

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Hartford CT
    Posts
    153
    Country: United States

    Default Follow-up

    Huw, Thanks for the explanation I understand now.

    Gary was correct, the handle and bolt-work were in the open position, and the door was just jammed. It was in this condition after shipped here to the states and had not been open for more than 10 years. In this time someone went ahead and painted the safe with thick black paint that helped seal itís fate.


    First thing I did was scope the lock. 1st pic shows the talon in the unlocked position, so we new right away the lock was open. The owner had a key but didnít know if it was for the safe. I showed him the 2nd pic and confirmed it was.


    Completely serviced and working fine now. Interesting to work on an old timer from the UK, sure was a pleasure out of the ordinary.


    DH
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 1.jpg   2.jpg   3.jpg   4.jpg   5.jpg  

    6.jpg  

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    leeds
    Posts
    188
    Country: Great Britain

    Default

    Well done David, I did wonder if it might have been paint sealed when you originally posted, did you run a hacksaw blade round the door edges, or just muscle it open?

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Hartford CT
    Posts
    153
    Country: United States

    Default

    Gary, thanks for spotting the handle position.

    I used my 36" 10lb. soft faced dead blow hammer to seat the door fully against it's stop. Then yanked hard on the handle. Back and forth with the door until she finally opened.

    Do you recognize the markings on the back of the lock?

    DH
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails IMG_0879.jpg   IMG_0881.jpg  

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Devon UK
    Posts
    2,941
    Country: UK

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by David Hovey View Post
    Gary, thanks for spotting the handle position.

    I used my 36" 10lb. soft faced dead blow hammer to seat the door fully against it's stop. Then yanked hard on the handle. Back and forth with the door until she finally opened.

    Do you recognize the markings on the back of the lock?

    DH
    Blimey!
    i have a 3 foot rubber hammer but I didn't know that you could get that large a dead low hammer, filled with lead shot

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