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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
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    Country: United States

    Default Miller "Key Changes"

    Hi:

    This is my first post as a new member.

    I've been studying the 1905 and 1925 Miller catalogs from your web site. On the Champion 6-lever pdf page 32 of the 1905 catalog it mentioned "Unlimited Key Changes" but on the next page "Champion 4-lever" is says "120 key changes", then on pdf pg 34 "Empire 6-lever" is says "12 key changes". What are key changes?

    http://www.prc68.com/I/Locks.html#Lever_Pancake_Padlock

    Have Fun,

    Brooke

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
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    Tonawanda, NY, USA
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    Quote Originally Posted by brookeclarke View Post
    Hi:
    What are key changes?
    Brooke
    The number of different keys that are available for a particular lock. I believe these are known as "differs" in the UK.

    The variations in the "bittings" of a key, and the corresponding variations in the tumblers or wards of the lock, are designated by the term "key changes". Thus, a cheap warded lock, having only four variations, is said to have four "key changes".*

    *
    from Yale & Towne Mfg. Co. Catalogue No. 26, (c)1929, pg. XXXII.

    Pete Schifferli

    note to BBE: perhaps this should be added to the LIST Council Locksmith Dictionary?

  3. #3
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    Mar 2017
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    Country: United States

    Default

    Hi Pete:

    That's what I thought but seems to be inconsistent with my Miller Champion 6-lever lock which is listed as unlimited while the "Champion 4-lever" is "120 key changes", then on pdf pg 34 "Empire 6-lever" is "12 key changes".

    From what I've read the 6-lever locks have 6 levers and each lever can have up to 6 different notch locations. So it would seem that the maximum number of key changes can be 6 * 6 = 36. Maybe less if the key can be inserted upside down.

    Maybe the Champion 4-lever has 30 notch positions on each lever?

    I can see how the number of key changes can be less than the maximum possible, but don't see how there can be more than the maximum and "unlimited" seem way to many.

    Have Fun,

    Brooke

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
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    california
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    Default

    this is inside of an L&N railroad 6 leverClick image for larger version. 

Name:	CAM00628.jpg 
Views:	17 
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ID:	17357this might be 16 changes

  5. #5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by brookeclarke View Post
    Hi Pete:

    That's what I thought but seems to be inconsistent with my Miller Champion 6-lever lock which is listed as unlimited while the "Champion 4-lever" is "120 key changes", then on pdf pg 34 "Empire 6-lever" is "12 key changes".

    From what I've read the 6-lever locks have 6 levers and each lever can have up to 6 different notch locations. So it would seem that the maximum number of key changes can be 6 * 6 = 36. Maybe less if the key can be inserted upside down.

    Maybe the Champion 4-lever has 30 notch positions on each lever?

    I can see how the number of key changes can be less than the maximum possible, but don't see how there can be more than the maximum and "unlimited" seem way to many.

    Have Fun,

    Brooke
    Obviously they were mathematically challenged, or they just lied. You are correct, 6 lever = 36 possibilities, 4 lever = 24 possibilities. It is entirely possible they limited the Empire to 12 possibilities.
    BBE.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pschiffe View Post

    note to BBE: perhaps this should be added to the LIST Council Locksmith Dictionary?
    Thanks for noticing Pete. Many years ago it was in there, looks like some cut and paste may have gotten rid of it. I'll see if I have a printed version from the 80's, if not I have started the process to add it.
    BBE

  7. #7
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    Oct 2010
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    Tonawanda, NY, USA
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBE View Post
    Obviously they were mathematically challenged, or they just lied. You are correct, 6 lever = 36 possibilities, 4 lever = 24 possibilities. It is entirely possible they limited the Empire to 12 possibilities.
    BBE.
    Not all theoretical key changes may be manufactured for a number of technical reasons. These might included all identical cuts exposing the lock to being easily picked as well as too many deep cuts that could weaken the key. Thus the actual number of key changes is likely to be less than the theoretical number.

    Pete Schifferli

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
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    Country: Australia

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by brookeclarke View Post
    From what I've read the 6-lever locks have 6 levers and each lever can have up to 6 different notch locations. So it would seem that the maximum number of key changes can be 6 * 6 = 36.
    As I see it, a 6 lever lock with 6 possible notch locations on a lever would mean 6x6x6x6x6x6=46,656 differs, assuming there are no other restrictions upon the key space.

    ...Mark

  9. #9
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    Default

    also a friend told me his 4 lever champion had 5 levers,i took one apart and it did have 5 levers but worked with the 4 cut push key ?

  10. #10
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    forgot to add i also have a 6 lever champion with only 2 of the levers having double cuts.

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