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Thread: Anchoring

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
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    Aberdeenshire
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    Country: Great Britain

    Default Anchoring holes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chubby View Post
    I remember John Tann not providing fixing holes on their heavy safes (and they were seriously heavy). I was told, I think by Tann, that they didn't do this because so to do would compromise the safe. I never quite understood that- how one or two relatively small holes would cause a problem, but they knew more about the subject than I did!
    Hello again Chubby,

    For safes intended for export to the US where the UL 687 would apply, the testers would take advantage of any pre-prepared weaknesses such as anchoring tubes and spindle holes through the door.

    Ridiculous as it may sound, by their X6 standards, a penetration of 2 square inches (1'6 dia.) which could allow fishing of a pre-determined amount of Bank Notes after the application of water would constitute a failure if within the specific test time. This same criteria of 2 sq.inches when applied to the door jamb takes some considerable design improvement costs over the norm to prevent when you consider that only a gap measuring 4" x ˝" wide would constitute a failure.

    Their team of two operatives are extremely skilled in the use of the oxy-acet torch with a straight line 180° nozzle and substantial fluxing rods. (plus hose).

  2. #22
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    Sep 2007
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    Aberdeenshire
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    Country: Great Britain

    Default Damn salesmen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Safeone View Post
    Would any breach of the sides compromise the rating ? Mike Palmer sent me any interesting article some years ago on the cash drop facilities fitted to safes and how these were reducing cash rating because of the alleged weakness these could present.
    Hello Safeone.

    This has brought back to mind a very troublesome incident in the early 1990's.

    A Tann sales rep in the Midlands sold a Tenacity quality with the standard drawer deposit facility to a large Motor Auction house and unfortunately did so on the basis of the then accepted overnight Cash Cover of the basic safe. A large loss was incurred from the burglary where the deposit drawer was sawn off and the deposits extracted.

    This resulted in an action in the Guildhall Court which brought me out of retirement and failing to convince the court that the time taken to fish the contents thought the gap left from the severed drawer would have been excessive.

    I no longer have access to the AiS's position on this but perhaps some other reader could enlighten us.

    The onus lay solely with salesman who had not been properly enlightened on his responsibility.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
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    184
    Country: Great Britain

    Default

    Mike Palmer relayed a story to me about a safe that had a narrow drop facility for cash pods. An employee took diagrams and pocked around internally over a period of time then spent a few hours with a Dyson and modified attachments and took many of the pods. Dont think it matters how well it is bolted down in circumstances such as these.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
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    1,485
    Country: United States

    Default

    Not mentioned but sometimes important, anchoring can be a safety issue with a safe that is light compared to its door. That is, when you open the door the safe might tip over or it might be close to it.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
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    Default

    Plate safes with a heavy doorframe were particularly prone to tipping.

    One useful way of anchoring is to weld some big RSJ or channel to the base of the safe and then cast a plinth around the unit which is also tied into the floor. The big advantage with that is that it lifts the safe so making it easier to use.

    I am amazed at how much traffic this thread has generated! Perhaps it is just that people have less to do over the Christmas & New Year period.

  6. #26
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    Sep 2007
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    Default Afterthought.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chubby View Post
    Plate safes with a heavy doorframe were particularly prone to tipping.

    One useful way of anchoring is to weld some big RSJ or channel to the base of the safe and then cast a plinth around the unit which is also tied into the floor. The big advantage with that is that it lifts the safe so making it easier to use.

    I am amazed at how much traffic this thread has generated! Perhaps it is just that people have less to do over the Christmas & New Year period.
    Right Chubby,

    Just passing the time till the Bells.

    But you have reminded me - I forgot to mention one critical point - the strength of the concrete.
    Our test anchoring was on a factory standard concrete which would have been approximately 40 N/mm˛ compressive strength.

    Shops and offices are more generally 20 N/mm˛. However the critical point is that it is not cracked.

    To put this in context with the barrier concrete in safe bodies, Tanncrete, as in top grade safes was around 180 N/mm˛. This of course is only the strength in compression whereas Tanncrete was mainly designed to have the maximum tensile strength to resist fragmentation.

    Sorry, Chubby, sounds like I'm teaching my Grandmother to suck eggs.

  7. #27
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    Feb 2014
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    Country: Great Britain

    Default

    Leverage eh........not got any physics or engineering quals but leverage is brilliant. Got given a massive roller crow bar off an ex rail track pal sometime ago, it has a wide 'toe', wide wheels, weighs a ton and is over five feet high. Once the toe gets under the base of any safe I have owned(two tonne plus included) a simply pull down on the bar gets the safe up ready to place blocks etc underneath. I am only 14 stone, the rest is water retention, and manage this with ease. Amazing !! Easily pleased me :-)

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Bulgaria
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    Country: Bulgaria

    Default

    "Give me a lever long enough, and a strong enough fulcrum,..................and I will bend the lever" to paraphrase Archimedes.

    That sounds to be a useful piece of kit for anybody with a heavy one to move.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
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    Aberdeenshire
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    Default And as Samuel Chatwood wrote .....

    Quote Originally Posted by Safeone View Post
    Leverage eh........not got any physics or engineering quals but leverage is brilliant. Got given a massive roller crow bar off an ex rail track pal sometime ago, it has a wide 'toe', wide wheels, weighs a ton and is over five feet high. Once the toe gets under the base of any safe I have owned(two tonne plus included) a simply pull down on the bar gets the safe up ready to place blocks etc underneath. I am only 14 stone, the rest is water retention, and manage this with ease. Amazing !! Easily pleased me :-)
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Looks like you have a Shunting Bar with additional wheels. Magnificent piece of equipment. Have seen it used to great effect edging and levelling a strong room door and frame into final position.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  10. #30
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
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    184
    Country: Great Britain

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by safeman View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Lever fulcrum..JPG 
Views:	14 
Size:	46.8 KB 
ID:	16601

    Looks like you have a Shunting Bar with additional wheels. Magnificent piece of equipment. Have seen it used to great effect edging and levelling a strong room door and frame into final position.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	shunting bar.JPG 
Views:	22 
Size:	243.7 KB 
ID:	16602
    Thanks for the informative reply. Seems bizarre as to how much lift can be got with a bent bar ! I will photograph mine and post it at somepoint, there should be a picture attached showing the same man using a different bar.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails bar.jpg  

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