Oldest safes in the world

[Tom Gordon]

What would the people here consider the oldest safes in the world?

Hobnail Safes were banded iron riveted on hardwood normally oak - there is one at Breamore in Hampshire, 17th/18th century.

[chubbbramah]

Surely the earliest security was 'strongboxes'? The 'receptacle safe from fire and theft' was due to Marr's fireproof lining patent of 1834, I submit. I date the safe from that.
Logically, 'plate safes', which have no fire protection, ought to be called 'secures', but that battle was lost long ago.

[Tom Gordon]

Surely the earliest security was 'strongboxes'? The 'receptacle safe from fire and theft' was due to Marr's fireproof lining patent of 1834, I submit. I date the safe from that.
Logically, 'plate safes', which have no fire protection, ought to be called 'secures', but that battle was lost long ago.

i agree with you that nothing used to be properly secure but if you think in more general terms, about strongboxes that were more than merely wooden boxes, the hobnails were a progression from wooden boxes in that they were covered in metal and came before cast strongboxes and other all metal strongboxes.
How old were the oldest hobnails or other variants?

[Huw Eastwood]

Suppose it depends how you want to define a safe, but if hobnails count then the Roman arca ferrata are much older again. Not that many have survived but there are a few examples plus buildings left with the base remnants of the concrete platform with a central iron anchor bolt.

While the Romans were undoubtedly superb engineers they didn't necessarily invent everything they were given credit for, and the arca ferrata safes might have been copied or adapted from earlier Mesopotamian, Syrian, Indian(etc) ideas.

[Tom Gordon]

Suppose it depends how you want to define a safe, but if hobnails count then the Roman arca ferrata are much older again. Not that many have survived but there are a few examples plus buildings left with the base remnants of the concrete platform with a central iron anchor bolt.

While the Romans were undoubtedly superb engineers they didn't necessarily invent everything they were given credit for, and the arca ferrata safes might have been copied or adapted from earlier Mesopotamian, Syrian, Indian(etc) ideas.

Yes and here is one from AD79!

[BBE]

Yes and here is one from AD79!

Is that from PomPeii? Cool.
BBE.

[Tom Gordon]

Is that from PomPeii? Cool.
BBE.

Well done- very nearly right!
It would not have survived at all in Pompeii- which was incinerated , but along the coast about 10 miles is Herculaneum which was engulfed in a volcanic mudslide at the same moment which preserved wood and metal much better. This is in the Naples Archeological Museum and is in the magnificent condition that you see.

[Huw Eastwood]

There's often mention of one discovered with Ramesses II, which would predate the Roman arca ferrata's by well over 1,000 years, but not sure where it is or what happened to it.
Always assumed it was probably in the Cairo museum but they notoriously display only what they want the masses to see, and there's never any mention of it, so no idea on that.

It would presumably be purely timber construction though, and unlikely to have any protective metal cladding.

[Tom Gordon]

There's often mention of one discovered with Ramesses II, which would predate the Roman arca ferrata's by well over 1,000 years, but not sure where it is or what happened to it.
Always assumed it was probably in the Cairo museum but they notoriously display only what they want the masses to see, and there's never any mention of it, so no idea on that.

It would presumably be purely timber construction though, and unlikely to have any protective metal cladding.

Probably would have been clad and then banded in gold!

[safeman]

Surely the earliest security was 'strongboxes'? The 'receptacle safe from fire and theft' was due to Marr's fireproof lining patent of 1834, I submit. I date the safe from that.
Logically, 'plate safes', which have no fire protection, ought to be called 'secures', but that battle was lost long ago.

Yes. Strongboxes or Chests. Used by Merchants who took them on their travels in coaches and Inns hence the handles.
The Marr Patent was a laughing stock at the time. The early makers such as Edward Tann and Leadbetter who both supplied the lockmaker Chubb made wrought iron Bookcases and Cupboards with their own locks fitted.

Thos. Milner's moisture generating compound captured the market. It was copied by Tann who were forced to alter their mixture in conformity.

Plate Safes were so catalogued for the protection of Silver Plate in the Butler's Pantry.

Edward Tann and Leadbetters both made safes for Chubb and began to fit linings and filling the space with whitening which was Chubb's version of fire-resisting lining.