Mosler in Odd Long Strongbox; locked, of course.

[wlwhittier]

I'm in partnership with another fellow in this safe. Lotsa rattling inside as it gets moved, suggesting that it's partially filled with treasure untold. But of course there is no combination for access to the goodies within!

Very heavy (100 pounds plus). Dial moves smoothly in both directions. No lever to open, so it must have a single bolt that withdraws at the final number (I'm guessing, here).

The questions:
Are there any shortcuts to manipulating (discovering) the combination?
Do the numbers stamped on one hinge have any pertinence?
Can three (or four?) numbers in the combination be assumed from appearance?
Do all locks of this nature start with 4 left rotations to clear before beginning the combination, (then R, L, R [L])?

We're just two old fools with nothing better to do than chase improbable dreams; not highly skilled at cracking safes, or much else come to think of it.

All comments, suggestions and raucous laughter are invited, and will be gratefully acknowledged. Warren

[Doug MacQueen]

Warren, you are correct about the lock controlling the door locking bolt. Mosler safes, even simple looking ones can be very unfriendly to amateur safe crackers who decide to use violence against them, so stick with the manipulation. To answer your questions, (1) generally no, (2) no, (3) pretty good chance it is a 4 wheel lock, (4) clearing is not necessary, wastes time and adds unnecessary wear to the lock. Mosler made both last turn to right and last turn to left models, but that really doesn't matter much in manipulation. On the plus side, the dial runs smooth and Mosler locks of that vintage are manipulation friendly, compared to later Moslers. And lest manipulation friendly be misconstrued, a basic working knowledge of manipulation is required. It will be a good challenge for a couple of old fools to spend precious hours on when you could cleaning out the garage. I will say the rattling may just be bolts used to lag the safe down to concrete. However, I think the number of safes I have opened where there was sizable but unknown riches is up to 8 or 9, so there is hope. Good luck!

[wlwhittier]

Hullo, Doug...and Thanks!

I'll be ver' grateful if you didn't remind me of the garage (and other areas) that sorely need clean-out; I'm 75, and may never get a Round Tuit...though I live with a wee bit of guilt on the subject.

First: there are NO holes anywhere on/in the case, so it wasn't ever bolted down. No flanges, no evidence of welding...nor of having been immersed in concrete. It appears to have been free-standing (or laying), with only weight as a deterrent to a grab & run theft.

I've read a .pdf file I found in this forum: Safecracking for the computer scientist, by Matt Blaze

It sums up what appears to be a daunting undertaking, but potentially well worthwhile. I'm no computer scientist, but the instructions are clear enough for this stumbling duo.

I note a couple of things that may be significant: first, there is no secondary index mark on the dial ring. That seems to indicate that this lock wasn't designed to allow the combination to be reset. Next, if the hinges are on the right (opposite as shown) the stamped numerals on the upper hinge are oriented correctly, and the primary (only) index is at the top...but when zero is aligned with that index, the word Mosler is upside down. My limited understanding of safes tells me that most (all, in my experience) of them open to the right; which makes the way Mosler is marked here somewhat anomalous.

This feeds into the question of what position the door should be in to accommodate gravity (if that was a factor in the design of this lock) in correct manipulation attempt. That is: should the door face be horizontal (as if the safe was meant to be vertically installed, such as in a floor), or vertical? And if vertical, is it probable the index was meant to be above the dial (hinges right) or below...and Mosler orientation ignored?

Warren

[wylk]

... there is no secondary index mark on the dial ring. That seems to indicate that this lock wasn't designed to allow the combination to be reset.

I'd be more inclined to guess the lock is either a "zero change" unit that uses the same index for opening and changing, or (more likely to me) it is a "hand change" lock that requires partial disassembly to make a change. Perhaps somebody else will recognize the lock from your images.

[Doug MacQueen]

Yes that would be a hand change and I would keep the opening index mark vertical unless you leave the safe on the floor. An internal spring ensures the lock will work in either position. You might want to get a mounted modern combination lock with dial, so you can study the action. Even though it may be different than the Mosler you have, learning how to position the wheels is extremely important.

[T Davison]

This looks top be a small inner safe that would be installed after by moslor. The door will be 1/2" plate and the partitions are 1/2" plate steel. The weight for the 7" x 8 "door and a body of 19 9/16" is 147lbs.
I'll have to look up the lock for you . TJ

[Chubby]

Unless anchored down it would provide minimal security. It would make a useful wall safe if you have a wall that would take it.

[Huw Eastwood]

Lotsa rattling inside as it gets moved, suggesting that it's partially filled with treasure untold

Whats the rattling sound like?

Platinum Patek Philippe Grande Sonneries tend to have quite a delicate 'ring' as they bounce around, whereas London 'Good Delivery' bars of a kilo or more will go with a proper thud...

[wlwhittier]

You might want to get a mounted modern combination lock with dial, so you can study the action. Even though it may be different than the Mosler you have, learning how to position the wheels is extremely important.

Good plan, Doug...I do have an older comb. lock on a much smaller box...I'll dig it out and add it to the study materials. Thanks! wlw

[wlwhittier]

This looks top be a small inner safe that would be installed after by moslor. The door will be 1/2" plate and the partitions are 1/2" plate steel. The weight for the 7" x 8 "door and a body of 19 9/16" is 147lbs.
I'll have to look up the lock for you . TJ

Hi, TJ...my door is 6-1/8" X 7"; the body is 18-7/8". I'm not man enough to lift it onto a scale (even if it had handles, which it doesn't) but I doubt it would go that high in weight...more like 120# or so; an estimate based on helping my partner move it. The lack of fittings or any other evidence of ever being secured against movement makes your statement about it being an inner part of a much larger safe spot on!

Anything you can find on the lock will be an enormous help...Thanks! wlw