How do I change the Combination to my antique safe

[Melissaphil]

I recently purchased a functional antique safe and would like to know if it is possible to change the current combination?

Also, I would like to know if there are any annual maintenance requirements for these old safes?

Many thanks to you all,

Phil

[wylk]

That is a really neat old safe. Too bad it's been repainted. The patent referred to on the dial is 91,156, see http://pdfpiw.uspto.gov/.piw?Docid=00094156 which includes some diagrams and a description of the lock which should be useful (I haven't read through this yet).

I can't quite read the patent date on the lever, could you clarify this?

Herring & Co was founded in 1841. Eventually it merged with others to become Herring Hall Marvin but I don't have a date for that. We know this safe had to be made in 1869 or later.

[wylk]

The patent shows this to be a "key change" lock. Which is too bad since you probably don't have the change key! If the patent diagrams are accurate it appears to be a half-round style change key. An example to clarify this is current eBay auction http://www.ebay.com/itm/271645990407



Note, I offer this only for illustration. I'd be dumbfounded if this particular key actually works on your lock. Basically you dial the old combination, insert the correct change key and rotate it in the correct direction (usually 1/4 turn), dial the new combination, rotate the key back and remove it. Then test it several times with the door open. Lots of room for catastrophic failure if not done correctly!

Do any of the experts have suggestions about where a correct change key can be found? I know various companies make change keys but which one would be the "key" question.

A possible source of help is http://savta.org and their "Safe Tech Search" to find a professional safe tech near where you live.

If you really want to get technical about safe locks in general I often suggest http://www.crypto.com/papers/safelocks.pdf though it's more about contemporary locks than 1870s locks.

[Doug MacQueen]

Most SAVTA members are unlikely to have the proper change key for that lock, so it would be worth making sure before hand. I am not even sure I have one but it shouldn't be too hard to make. That July 25, 1865 Farrel patent No. 48,919 is for the external active relocker or AED. Doug

[David Hovey]

Interesting combination lock. I haven't done much research on Herring/Dexter but that lock sure looks like the birth of a Dexter. The first original Dexters (like pic below) I've seen look very similar to this design and John Farrel's patent. (Herring, Farrel, Sherman,-Dexter)

If you remove the 3 cover screws and the lock case cover, take a picture of the interior lock mechanism so I can clearly see the wheel change key hubs, I might be able to help you with a change key.

DH

[David Hovey]

Interesting combination lock. I haven't done much research on Herring/Dexter but that lock sure looks like the birth of a Dexter. The first original Dexters (like pic below) I've seen look very similar to this design and John Farrel's patent. (Herring, Farrel, Sherman,-Dexter)

If you remove the 3 cover screws and the lock case cover, take a picture of the interior lock mechanism so I can clearly see the wheel change key hubs, I might be able to help you with a change key.

DH

Correction; The first original Dexters I've seen look very similar to this design and Weimar's lock patent.

I see now that Farrel's patent refers to the active relocking device, or as Doug states and across the pond AED.

DH

[wylk]

... it shouldn't be too hard to make [a change key].

I agree but that may depend on whether you want to bother with the tab that prevents removal unless the wheels are back to normal, and/or the tab that prevents over-rotation in either position (which are often the same tab). It might be possible to use the La Gard almost-half-round key as a starting point (in which case the tab is really a notch). For a one-time change I might be tempted to make a simple tool without the safety features and just be really careful.

[Doug MacQueen]

Wylk, you do an excellent job researching the locks and patents, far better than most that are in the trade, however when I say it shouldn't be too hard to make one, that is based on the premise that the person making it has the skills and equipment to do so. I was not suggesting it would be easy for the OP. For the very reason that you have already stated, using something that may be similar (the LaGard key), but not the exact key is not a good idea. Sorry for for the confusion . Doug

[Yankee]

So it just happens that I have a sample of this lock in my collection. It's a nice and early Herring. It does however need a Herring change tool that is not easily made. As you can see from the photos, it is a fully round stock with raised notches that engage with each wheel. This can be made, but would require some skill, and exact measurements.

I have several of these keys, and would consider loaning you one. Feel free to private message me, and we can work out the details.

As for changing the combination, it is a zero set. You would dial the current numbers in at the index, insert the change tool and turn it clockwise one quarter turn. Then dial in your new combination, stopping on the last number. Turn the change tool back counterclockwise one quarter turn and remove it. Testing your new numbers several times with the safe door open.

Sorry that my photos are a bit out of focus, I'm using my tablet.

If anyone has questions on this lock feel free to ask, and I'll try to help.

If an

[Yankee]

So it just happens that I have a sample of this lock in my collection. It's a nice and early Herring. It does however need a Herring change tool that is not easily made. As you can see from the photos, it is a fully round stock with raised notches that engage with each wheel. This can be made, but would require some skill, and exact measurements.

I have several of these keys, and would consider loaning you one. Feel free to private message me, and we can work out the details.

As for changing the combination, it is a zero set. You would dial the current numbers in at the index, insert the change tool and turn it clockwise one quarter turn. Then dial in your new combination, stopping on the last number. Turn the change tool back counterclockwise one quarter turn and remove it. Testing your new numbers several times with the safe door open.

Sorry that my photos are a bit out of focus, I'm using my tablet.

If anyone has questions on this lock feel free to ask, and I'll try to help.

If an