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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    7
    Country: Australia

    Default Repairing and extending the bit on an old key

    Newby.

    Done plenty of searching, both on here and Google, but not found what I'm after.

    I've decided to make new keys for the locks on our varied 18c furniture, and for other restoration projects I have.

    I recently found a selection of old keys on eBay, which are ideally suited to my purpose, and much cheaper than buying newly produced "blanks" of old keys, however , many have been cut already, and need to be returned to "blank" condition.

    I've managed to successfully make the bit larger on a few keys, using solder, filing it back, and then recutting the key but the finished product is silver. Is there another way that this can be done which is easier, and/or does anyone know how to change the colour of solder to a darker shade?

    As as an aside, I'm really enjoying pulling old furniture locks apart, and making new keys to suit. I've successfully made keys for 4 items to date.

    Andrew Allan

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Tonawanda, NY, USA
    Posts
    900
    Country: United States

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by andrewa View Post
    Newby.

    Done plenty of searching, both on here and Google, but not found what I'm after.

    I've decided to make new keys for the locks on our varied 18c furniture, and for other restoration projects I have.

    I recently found a selection of old keys on eBay, which are ideally suited to my purpose, and much cheaper than buying newly produced "blanks" of old keys, however , many have been cut already, and need to be returned to "blank" condition.

    I've managed to successfully make the bit larger on a few keys, using solder, filing it back, and then recutting the key but the finished product is silver. Is there another way that this can be done which is easier, and/or does anyone know how to change the colour of solder to a darker shade?

    As as an aside, I'm really enjoying pulling old furniture locks apart, and making new keys to suit. I've successfully made keys for 4 items to date.

    Andrew Allan
    I think that solder is too soft to make a lasting key. Perhaps you could build the bits up by "brazing" with brass rod but this requires considerable heat. There is a product called Brass Ager which is used to darken brass, steel or zinc but I doubt it will work on solder:
    http://www.kennedyhardware.com/brass...ution-m-3.html

    Pete Schifferli

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Posts
    37
    Country: Australia

    Default

    Hi Andrew,

    Firstly, welcome to the forum!
    Secondly, you could cut the flag off completely, trench a groove in the key shank, then braze or silver solder a new flag of the correct dimensions into the shank. This way there would be a minimal silver line to deal with.
    Please post your keys, as one of the members may have, or know where you could find blanks for your furniture.

    Kind regards,
    Mickthepick.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    7
    Country: Australia

    Default

    Thanks for the ideas. I need to better understand soldering, and how and when to use flux, before I start thinking about brazing!

    it's all fun.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    16
    Country: Great Britain

    Default Making a new flag

    Better still, if it's a steel key, weld on a new flag. Then the repair will be invisible.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    192
    Country: United States

    Lightbulb repairing the bit of an old key

    Hello, copper sulfate will change 50/50 solder color to the color of copper. if you need to darken the solder, mix a little flux in with the copper sulfate. experiment to achieve the blend that you desire.
    Brazing, or brass welding a brass key is a rather futile effort as the brass rod & the key tend to melt at the same , or near the same temp.
    there may be an alloy in the key that you are not able to discover until you try it.. practice on a key of no value. icon3

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    7
    Country: Australia

    Default

    I've not gone so well with all this.

    I'Ve tried cutting new brass flags, and joining them to the shaft of old keys, but solder doesn't seem to "stick" to some, yet sticks to others, so, to date, I haven't managed to attach a new flag to an old shaft successfully.

    I even bought a gas torch and some brazing rods, but nothing much happens except that the flux burns off the outside of the rods - it certainly doesn't run into the gap between them.

    At best, I've managed to fill some of the voids in old flags with solder, and then remodel them, and occasionally extend the flags with solder. It's all been somewhat random and irritating.

    andrew a

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Cyberspace
    Posts
    1,318
    Country: Australia

    Default

    Silver soldering is a bit of an art. Add to which joining dissimilar materials can be more complex still.

    Pre-fluxed rods are a PIA in my opinion.

    Whereabouts are you in Aus ?

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Cleveland, Ohio USA
    Posts
    1,433
    Country: United States

    Default

    There are low temp soft solders which melt way below 1000 F and high temp hard solders which melt above 1000 F. Tix is good low temp brand. However for serious strength use a hi temp hard silver solder. Hard solder works best when the gap is a very close fit, .001-002". Attaching small pieces of metal to larger is always more difficult than soldering objects of similar mass, until you learn how to control the heat, and even then sometimes it is preferable to add a big piece and cut it down to size. It is hard to see the temp rise on brass so turn the lighting down in the room but not so much that you can't see when the flux has burned the water out and then melts and looks like water on the metal. Don't even try to add the solder until after that point is reached. Using it to fill cuts on keys is not a great idea, better to add a new bit. Properly done, a hard silver solder joint can be as strong as a weld on mild steel. And don't quench brass after soldering as it will soften the metal. Pictured are the basics needed for high temp silver soldering. Fire brick, solder , flux and torch. And practice!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails IMG_20170214_060152.jpg  

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    16
    Country: Great Britain

    Default Soldering

    Doug has summed it up ! Soft solder is fine for non load bearing applications such as electrical joints or copper tubes but totally unsuitable for fastening an new flag to a key.

    If you look at a new off-the - shelf 3-lever mortise lock key the flag is electrically welded to the shaft an thus stays put.

    In order to silver one needs to get the parent materials (flag and shaft) to say 370 degrees F. Soft solder melts at under 200 degrees F

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