Part of a Safe Lock for you to ID

[Ant]

Found this part assembly of a Safe lock Which has most of its parts missing It looks like it could be a Chatwood, though thats just a guess as it as got a duel bolt platform could it be two key action?
And the three brass lever springs are unusual too.
I'd be interested to read any thoughts.

[Ant]

Its strange that none of you can help me with the identification of this lock, It came into my possession from an old locksmith who had worked at Chubb, Ratner and John Tann OK I know that widens the scope of the lock it could be But I would like to try and rebuild this or perhaps someone else would if they have any ideas, one the other hand it could be a prototype that never got to production; making it unique!
Thanks for you time Ant

[Huw Eastwood]

I'm surprised there's been no response at all, I thought a few would recognise it and there's two or three members whom I was half expecting would have one to show pictures, guess it must be a real oddball after all.

Ant, have you tried the British safe engineers forum run by Keith- might be worth a try to reach additional active techs still out in the field. Not sure if he's a member on here though, he kindly invited me to join some years back but it was already a year or two after we'd closed our business. I think Alan Morgan is still an occasional visitor here, it was Alan that passed my details onto Keith, might be worth a try to see if any of their members recognise it- from what I recall it's a tightly closed forum with an annual fee but hopefully one of their members could post it up for you.

Would be interesting to know what it is and exactly what's missing from it, better fire up the lathe and milling machine ready...

[Doug MacQueen]

Of course, another obscure internally indirect drive English combination lock. Thank you Patent, sure didn't see that one coming. Well Max, I guess we're both guilty of not thinking outside the box, both making the natural assumption that it must be a keylock. I feel especially bad given the fact that I have an apparently slightly less obscure Chatwood SAM combination lock sitting on the chair nearby. Here are a couple pictures and one of an earlier MacNeale Urban Excelsior lock.

[Huw Eastwood]

Yes totally agree Doug, yet another big thanks to Patent, I had no idea that was coming either- not so much 'barking up the wrong tree', as 'in the wrong forest' with that one!

Patent was one of the members who I thought might have one, the photos and patent drawing are a big step forward on a lock that i didn't even know existed- and what a beautiful lock it is- love that conical banded dial, so thanks again Patent.

Doug your Chatwood SAM is amazing, in 30 years I never encountered any of the 'exotic' Chatwood locks, did see a few of Chris Taylor's chatwood's a long time ago, that was as close as I got to the 'pork pies' and combinations.
Always amazing to see how much brass and phosphor bronze went into those back then.
Which always makes me think how many zinc die-cast LaGard Combogards will be around in 100 years...

[safeman]

Wandering off subject slightly I attach a photograph of a Ratner Grade 7 from 1925 fitted with the 'Combo' Lock.

From the first Tann Museum this is similar but slightly more detailed than the colour photo in the website Museum version.

Also more clearly shown are the demo Ratner LeeMatic board and a Chatwood Composite lock

used to demonstrate the multiple actions in the Diamond Safe. Attached is a photo of the LeeMatic system as fitted

(Grade unknown but probably 'Y' Quality or above).

The Patent No. 936155 dates from 1960 which almost coincides with Chubb's more complicated version of

an Isolator Boltwork.

[Huw Eastwood]

Knock me sideways again, the times I've seen the old museum pictures of the big Ratner on your site safeman, yet I'd totally forgotten it had that conical dial. Beautiful safe, would really like to have seen it.

Whos that in the background, the young and suave playboy character fiddling with the demo board... ;-)

[Gary Stephenson]

Is the LEEMATIC what Ratner called that isolating system then, have worked on a nightsafe and strongroom door with that system recently, first time I had seen it so must be quite a rarity

[Gary Stephenson]

Proper safes, a modern safe showroom would not be as impressive. Think I worked on that diamond down at woden rd, the fantail levers were pinned and the composite was missing although it still had the 5 spindle, a true thing of beauty that safe.

[Doug MacQueen]

I have already spent way too much time trying to visualize the missing parts and action of this lock, made more difficult without seeing the lower plate exposed. It doesn't ring any U.S. made bells, but it also may not even be Chubb, Ratner or Tann. Some sort of prep key was used I suppose. Even if it used the center pivoted lever a al Milner Ratner, isn't the possible lever pivot pin awfully close to the stump? At first I was thinking it was possibly pre-powder proof era but now I am thinking it is more likely much later. Max, what are your thoughts? Doug