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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Austin, Texas
    Posts
    30
    Country: United States

    Default Cannonball Restoration

    10 June 2016

    I am getting ready to paint my Ely Norris. I've decided to go with black instead of the Mazda Sol Red or Lexus Infra Red. I have asked for a little guidance here and got no comments about whether to paint the inside. My safe has never been painted inside. Any thoughts? I had the shelf powdered coated a cream color and the interior door is engined turned and in pretty good shape so I am just leaving it that way.

    I am 61 so I will not have the safe but 20 or 30 years at best. Should I just leave the interior in the bare metal like it has been for the last 80 or 90 years?

    By the way, does anyone know how to date an ElyNorris Cannonball? I have the serial number of the safe and three serial numbers on the timelock are in sequence so I assume it is original.

    TexasChilli

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    147
    Country: United States

    Default

    For a cast surface like in a cannonball I have used a "hammered" paint that Rustoleum makes. Using the silver color and playing around with how much you work the paint with the brush it gives a beautiful finish that looks like fresh cast with a little extra gloss. For a true hammered look you want to lay the paint in one pass if possible as extra strokes can leave brush marks. If you play around with different stiffness of bristles and how you much you work the paint you can get different effects. Not sure if there is a color that will compliment the color of your shelf.

    If the finish is decent there is nothing wrong with leaving it as is. Be sure to post pictures of your progress.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Cleveland, Ohio USA
    Posts
    1,433
    Country: United States

    Default

    According to John Erroll, about 3,000 Y-361 timelocks were made, starting in 1909. It is unclear when production stopped, but sometime in the 1920's. From a York catalog, black or aluminum were the 2 color choices. I am not sure if Ely Norris offered black prior to the York takeover, but it is a little more appropriate than a red. I have also seen a couple that were an off white. This beauty is one of the nicest I've seen.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails IMG_3099.JPG   IMG_3102.JPG  

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    1,755
    Country: Wales

    Default

    That is a beauty Doug. Thinking back to my research a good while back the Ely Norris always seemed the most sought after of all the cannonballs. Their auction prices went way over the others and the miniature salesman samples often double or treble. Not sure exactly why, or if that's still the case now though, as a lot has happened with world economies and markets since then.

    I remember also that silver/grey or aluminium that Doug's shown also seemed the most common paint scheme for them.
    Worth sticking with that and keeping things all original I would think.

    Its a beautiful safe you have there Texachilli, and either way I would think that you have a winner with that one.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Cleveland, Ohio USA
    Posts
    1,433
    Country: United States

    Default

    Max, I think the unusual Yale Y-361 round case timelock automatic is the biggest draw for the Ely Norris. What most owners of these timelocks don't realize, is the incredible amount of thought that went into designing the auto. Each time I work on one, I have to struggle my way though to a re-understanding of exactly what is happening. Coming in second with the Ely Norris would likely be the Yale 101-1/2 double dial combination lock and its mounting location in the explosion cavity of the compound door. I suspect that during the time these cannonballs were used, the Ely Norris were probably considered the best available. However, both Diebold and Mosler were determined to not be outdone by Ely's innovative double compound door. Diebold's rare double door may even pre-date Ely's double compound door, based solely on patent dates. Mosler introduced the double lug door sometime around 1910 and was fairly popular. Diebold follows with their triple compound door, patent filed in 1909, but not awarded until 1913, which like their earlier double door, appears to be a rarity. This was actually a double door with inter-locking lugs. Finally Mosler has their Quadruple door. For years, I have wondered where they came up with that name, which seemed to be nothing more than an advertising ploy of outdoing the Ely Double and Diebold Triple Compound doors. Finally that mystery is put to rest. Today while getting these pictures together, I found a description of the Mosler Quadruple from a Mosler ad. It consisted of a screw door, lug, chambered door, and a double door. Strangely, none of the Mosler cannonballs carrying the name Quadruple have both lugs and screw, so it was, in fact, an advertising ploy. But the name was based on a Mosler safe design that was patented in 1914 and possibly even built. Patent #1,118,436 clearly shows a telescoping screw door built into a lug door. Good luck on finding one of these.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Ely Double Compound.jpg   Diebold double door.jpg   Mosler Double Lug.jpg   Diebold Triple Compound patent 1,066,629.jpg   Diebold Triple Compound patent.jpg  

    Diebold Triple Compound.jpg   Mosler Quadruple patent 1,118,436.jpg   Mosler Quadruple.jpg   Mosler Quadruple open.jpg  

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    1,755
    Country: Wales

    Default

    Thanks Doug, had never really found an explanation and probably ended up assuming it was down to general aesthetics, proportions and numbers made- totally overlooking any attraction of the locking and round Yale automatics- so yes it makes more sense now.

    I can remember from reading your posts the complexity on these is something else and a real 'box of tricks' for sure. Nothing like that to keep the old grey matter going.

    Thanks for posting the info- there's some great material there that I haven't seen before and I have to admit to never getting tired of old cannonball pics, especially those with the door swung open at 90*...

    I instantly recognise pic #3 as being the same Mosler I saw in an early 1980s Locksmith Ledger. As a young locksmith and safe tech in Britain they seemed like a world away, and thinking back that was probably the first image to really trigger my curiosity and interest in cannonballs.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    1,755
    Country: Wales

    Default

    Just had a good look through and wow, what an absorbing read. I had no idea they'd pushed the designs of the actual doors to those levels, and was unaware of the outer and inner doors being independently locked but lugged together to form a single unit, also creating the explosive chamber between the two- brilliant stuff!

    Interesting about the Mosler Quadruple, and can see what you are saying. It clearly has only a threaded door as in the last pic #9 but the patent drawing clearly shows additional projecting lugs like you say. Wonder if any examples were made featuring both, it's always a great loss when such important records are lost with time.

    Also love seeing all those marketing brochures from back then, seeing Ely Norris' simple but bold statement; 'the strongest safe in the world' reminded me of a similar one of Mosler's. Theirs was pictured with early tanks from the First World War as the background with the slogan 'the most indestructible thing man has ever made'. Love it!
    Cheers Doug, a thoroughly enjoyable read :-)

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