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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2008
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    Country: Aaland

    Default Possibly a BURNSIDE safe ... help with research needed pls

    I've been trying to do some research on my Grandfathers old safe. I've tried searching on the web for information and found very little. I would greatly appreciate any help or links if you have any please.

    The safe is burgundy colour with a gold border to it and has a separate drawer inside with another lock. The main keyhole is hidden by a shield badge made out of brass which slides across. The handle is like an old tap handle made out of brass too I think.

    Thanks

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
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    Aberdeenshire
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    Country: Great Britain

    Default Re: Mystery Antique Safe ... any help would be fantastic

    If your memory is correct the safe is likely to be a Burnside Cabinet.
    These were of quite a light construction - usually only 3/8" thick door plate compared to the normal 1/2" - and only fire resisting.
    As for whether it's worth the removal cost - that depends exactly on how you feel about the safe having belonged to your Grandfather.
    By the way it's probably not antique - more likely made between the wars.

  3. #3
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    Country: Aaland

    Default Re: Possibly a BURNSIDE safe ... help with research needed pls

    Thanks for the reply safeman, do you have a rough idea how much the Burnside safes are please? I can't find any information on this safe maker on the internet, I just know they are Birmingham Safe Makers. The only picture I found was a plaque off a Burnside on flickr

    4564914509de2d3c4e7oor1 1

    (image courtesy of pub_lick_smith).

    Anyone out there with ideas where I can get some information/history on Burnside with pictures please... as I'm trying to do some research into it.

  4. #4
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    in a house
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    Country: Aaland

    Default Re: Possibly a BURNSIDE safe ... help with research needed pls

    Here are a few pictures, although they're not very good it's all i've got.

    Anyone willing to help me as I've still been trying to find something, but to no avail. Even the plaques aren't turning up and don't seem to be on this site either.

    clear clear

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Leeds England
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    153
    Country: England

    Default Re: Possibly a BURNSIDE safe ... help with research needed pls

    Seen the images of your Burnside safe.

    Yours, judging by its hinges is an 1882-1898 model. Burnside, like many of the safe makers of their day were into munitions. Whenever a war was ended they turned their hand to safes. The safe, from what I can make out was a generic pattern of the day. If you ever see an early Bent Steel safe, this was their pattern. Generally painted in 'Olivine green & black with white or yellow coach lines. Does your have a lime interior with Burnside laquered paper badge on the door? Burnside, (I may be able to confirm) merged with Bent.
    It's escutcheon/lock looks like an 'invoilable'. One of the most common of the day. Burnside & many others of the day used to use the 'Coddrington' lock aslo.

    Bent, in their day were one of the larger manufacturers to whom many safe suppliers, like Richardsons & our Company, 'Withy Grove' used to buy & rebrand, having brass nameplates forged by Bent. If you have an ABIS listing, many of our safes were indeed 'Bent's'.

    Hope this helps a little.
    Cheers
    Russell

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
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    Devon UK
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    Country: UK

    Default Re: Possibly a BURNSIDE safe ... help with research needed pls

    There never was a safe manufacturer called Bent. Bent steel safes was the method of manufacture that followed rivetting and came before welding.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
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    Country: Australia

    Default Re: Possibly a BURNSIDE safe ... help with research needed pls

    I concur with Tom, Russel - unless you have any documentation your incorrect. As tom says it purely the method of construction that Bent refers too.

    Also I would like to see any evidence that allows you to date by the style of the hinges. I know how to roughly date from the manner of construction ie :

    All corners square : generally pre 1890
    Four bent corners : 1890 - 1900
    Eight bent corners 1900 - 1910
    Twelve bent corners 1920 onwards

    Note : there can and will be exceptions to the above criteria, and if anyone has any evidence to the contrary I would be happy to be corrected.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Possibly a BURNSIDE safe ... help with research needed pls

    A little more 'bent' and Birmingham.

    Wrought iron was the material used in most safe construction until steel became more commercially available at the turn of the century. Wrought iron (which tended to fracture when bent) was either rivetted or dovetailed to form the body of safes, sometimes reinforced by the addition of iron bands round the front and back. Incidentally, it was much more difficult to 'rip' the back off a wrought iron safe than a steel one of the same thickness as the more brittle iron plates would fragment rather than 'peel'.

    Of the 40 or so safe makers in the Birmingham area around this time, only about 5 survived the last war. They were Whitfields in Oxford Street, off Digbeth ; the Birmingham Safe Company, who for many years were in Heneage Street, John Grove of Ernest Street, W.E.Brain of Great Tindal Street, and Phillips Safe Company in Sherborne Street.

    By the mid-50's even they were gone. Whitfields became part of the MIlner Safe Company somewhere around 1946, the Birmingham Safe Company and Phillips became part of Samuel Withers which was eventually to be absorbed into the Stratford Safe Company in 1968 along with Safes Limited, J.Cartwright & Sons, Thomas Perry & Son, and E. Hipkins. Stratford, who badge engineered some of their lightest safes for export under the names Safes Limited and Withers, subsequently merged with John Tann.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
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    Country: New Zealand

    Default Re: Possibly a BURNSIDE safe ... help with research needed pls

    Hope this helps
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails DSC02974.JPG   DSC02975.JPG   DSC02976.JPG   DSC02977.JPG   DSC02973.JPG  


  10. #10
    Join Date
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    Country: Australia

    Default Re: Possibly a BURNSIDE safe ... help with research needed pls

    Those catalogue pages are very interesting. How large / many pages is the catalogue ?

    I would be happy to host it as a resource if the entire catalogue could be scanned or otherwise imaged ..

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