Ely Norris cannonball safe

**Texaschilli** · 06-01-16, 10:51 PM

6 January 2016

Dear Mr. MacQueen,

Thank you for your offer of assistance. I am not a mechanic. I once pulled the heads and did a valve job on my car, but that was a 1973 Levi Gremlin and was 40 years ago. I can field strip an M1 Garand.

This is my first and only safe besides a gun safe. I have wanted a cannonball for many years and found this one on Ebay and purchased it from a gentleman in Albuquerque New Mexico. He has several. He included what he said were the original operating instructions that came with the safe. I have followed those directions and set the timeclocks several times with the door open as you suggested. All three clocks run down and the bolt motors retract just fine. Everything appears to work fine.

What I am seeking guidance on is how to go about prepping the safe for bead blasting or sand blasting. Can I take the timelock unit out by simply removing the four brass or bronze screws that seem to be securing it? Or will a lot of other parts jump out like the old snake in a can trick?

I would also like to take off the bolt tripping lever and the back cover plate of the safe door to paint the door. And on the front the dials slide off the spindles but can I remove the 3 screws holding the plates the dials cover?

How much trouble is it to just take the door off entirely? Or is that wise?

My main desire is to get the timelock mechanism in a safe place and then get the body of the safe cleaned up.

Is "bondo" ok to use as a fairing compound?

Thank you for any guidance.

Jody Sims a/k/a Texaschilli

**Doug MacQueen** · 07-01-16, 02:02 AM

A valve job and field strip is close enough. It has been a while since I have done this and I did a total dis-assembly of timelock. Since you aren't going to be digging into the timelock, I am pretty sure that the entire case and innards can be removed in one piece. Do you have the key to open the timelock door? And please post a picture of the back of the door to help me describe what to do.

**Texaschilli** · 07-01-16, 08:16 PM

7 January 2016

Mr. MacQueen,

Attached ( I hope ) are some photos of my safe. On the back door, there is hexagonal bolt securing the tripping device. I would like to remove that to paint around the rim of the back of the door.

The time lock seems to be held in by four brass flathead screws or bolts. Around that is a jeweled plate that seems to only be secured by four slotted screws.

Yes, I do have the small key to open the door cover.

Jody Sims

**Texaschilli** · 07-01-16, 10:01 PM

7 January 2017

Mr. MacQueen, I think I attached the photos correctly this time.

Jody Sims

**Doug MacQueen** · 07-01-16, 10:34 PM

Good. Go ahead and remove the trip lever and the screws holding the jeweled plate. Open the TL door and you should be able to remove the jeweled plate off. The hinge cutout in the plate gives you enough clearance to get it around the door itself. Now close the TL door till it latches. You can see that the TL case is mounted to a large round steel plate which is bolted to the safe door itself. Remove all these outer bolts. At this point it's a good idea to get a helper to assist you. You are going to remove this plate and everything that's mounted on it. Not that it is terribly heavy but you sure don't want to drop it. If I have this right, you should now be able to twist the entire assembly, round mounting plate and all, far enough to totally disconnect it from the lock bolts and pull it out of the door. It may require some working to get it to twist far enough, but once you get that far, nothing is holding it in. Doug

**Doug MacQueen** · 08-01-16, 02:49 PM

There is one important thing I failed to add. In it's resting state (no time set on clock movements), there is a considerable amount of inward pressure holding the locking bolts retracted. This pressure will be working against against you as you twist the timelock and mounting plate to remove it. More importantly, when you go to re-install the timelock, it will be too tight to engage into the locking bolts. The solution for this is to set time on all 3 movements and set the mainspring. A few hours is usually sufficient. Since the trip lever has already been removed, the locking bolts will extend as you rotate the mainspring key. Once the mainspring is fully set, the bolts will remain extended, removing this unwanted pressure. Doing this will allow the plate to be twisted more easily in removing it. Also the bolts will have to be pulled out as they block removal of the plate. And as mentioned , you will have to again set time on the TL to get it re-assembled. Do not let anyone play with the timelock when removed until it unlocks, as fingers can get pinched. Doug

**Texaschilli** · 08-01-16, 10:45 PM

8 January 2016

Thanks for the advice. I am heading over to get my 1/4 inch drive Snap On sockets and my hollow ground gunsmith screwdriver bits.

I tried to remove the trip lever yesterday. It is held by only one bolt but I could not get it loose. It is spring loaded and the end leg portion of the lever would not come out of the cut out / hole in the mounting plate. Obviously it probably has a hole in it with a spring attached, so I did not want to just pull it out with brute force and ruin the spring.

Your suggestion about releasing the locking bolts is a 24 karat nugget of wisdom. Thanks. That is the kind of information I am looking for.

I was messing with the timelock and wound the 3 clocks for one hour so I could be around for the "retraction event" and hopefully see the bolts retract. The mainspring would not engage and I had a sick feeling in my stomach that the timelock had broken. I eventually put 12 hours on the clocks and the mainspring then engaged. So I understand now what you meant when you said winding a few hours should be sufficient.

Is there a minimum time you have to set on the dials to arm the system even though the dials go down to one hour? Or is my timelock just weak from age?

Thanks again for the insights.

Jody Sims

**Texaschilli** · 12-02-16, 06:41 PM

February 12, 2016

I have been tinkering with my Ely Norris cannonball and would appreciate anyone's comments. Doug MacQueen was a lot of help.

Here is what I have discovered so far. On my Ely Norris, there is no way to remove the jeweled trim plate surrounding the time lock. There was no cut-out in the trim plate to pass over the door-hinge of the time lock. The only way to remove the trim plate was to remove the timelock first because the timelock door hinge blocks it. The timelock came out very easily by removing the four bolts securing it to the time lock body. The time lock clock mechanism is suspended in the brass case by 8 springs. Four short ones and four a little longer.

As an aside, the trip lever that releases the locking bolts is secured by one bolt inserted through it, but to remove it, you have to take the jeweled cover off. If you just loosen or remove the bolt and pull on the trip lever to try to pull it out, you will DESTROY the spring. The end of the spring is secured on the trip lever by several wraps of the steel wire and then twisted like tying a fish hook. It is never coming off. The other end of the spring is simply an eye held by a bolt that is easily loosened. I took the trip lever off and put it in a bag with the spring still attached.

I took two pieces of all-thread and cut them to approximately 10 5/8 inches. I then put two nuts in the middle of each and jammed those together so I could turn the all-thread with a 7/16 wrench. I used the plates off of two small muffler clamps that were already drilled with elongated holes and then put this whole contraption over the locking bolts. Finally, I used four nuts with the plastic insert that prevents them from backing off and tightened it all up so I could close the safe door with the lugs safely retracted and secured. You have to take a small gear off for the all-thread to clear, but it is only held on by one screw. All the materials were a few bucks at Home Depot.

I did all this so I could close the door to sandblast the safe body.

Now I am having second thoughts. What about just taking the door off the cradle to prep the body? I was messing with it and the cradle or yoke pried off pretty easily. My heart sunk when it would not go back on, but with a wood block and small sledge and one fairly light tap, the cradle popped on again. I tapped downward on the bottom of the ring to get it back on.

Make sure and mark where the ring engages the pinion. I did not and it was a hassle to reinstall in the right place.

So I am thinking now to just take the door off the cradle and send the body shell with cradle-swinging yoke still attached out to be sandblasted and primed.

Any thoughts or suggestions on that?

Also the interior of my safe looks like it has never been painted. It has shiny spots like a grinder was used to smooth it down.

Would you paint the inside? I'm not going to sell the safe.

How hard is it to take apart the door cradle? Do you lose all the adjustments?

Thanks,

texaschilli

**Doug MacQueen** · 12-02-16, 09:51 PM

Sorry that did not work out for you, but these things happen and you have to roll with them. Here are some pictures I just located showing what you are talking about. Personally, I would not remove the door as long as the door/jamb edge is constantly protected from the sand blasting. Otherwise you may wish you had converted an engine stand into a door holding stand.

**00247** · 12-02-16, 09:58 PM

Depending on what degree you want to go with the restoration, I would remove the door. While it is easy to remove the outer plated pieces there are a couple nickel plated washers/spacers between the cradle and body hinge halves. It will be hard to protect them when sandblasting and to paint in that area. Now handling that door is no easy task especially when it comes to assembly and not damaging paint.

I modified an engine stand that I could raise with a hydraulic jack in order to remove the door from the cradle, be able to spin the door to work on it, and to fit it back into the cradle without damaging paint. Be advised these doors are very heavy and the stand can flex, I reinforced mine. You could also leave the door screwed in and just remove the cradle. If you do remove the door I would advise a couple dry runs of reinstalling and adjusting with old paint in order to prevent a mishap with the new paint.

Here is a picture of an original York/Ely like yours.

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A quick story. In a nearby town a local bank was bought out by a larger one. After a period of time they moved out of town. The bank sat empty for a number of years while it was for sale. Finally a small flower shop bought it for pennies on the dollar as the home office wanted to dump it. The wife stopped in after they remodeled it and said they have a cannonball. I rushed down to take a look and talk with the owner. Here this beautiful cannonball was sitting in the vault. I wish I had known, I'm sure I could have bought it for little of nothing from the home office. That one hurt... especially when it was 14 miles from home.

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