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  1. #1
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    Aug 2014
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    Default Some strange Yale keys

    Hi everyone,

    I recently came across some Yale keys I've never seen before. I was hoping someone might know what they were used for:

    RN-9 1/2 GMK, 4 pin length. Were these only for masterkeyed cabinet locks? I have a cabinet lock in GE section that is 4 pin, but only has 3 active pins, the 4th is a dead pin (no chamber in the bible, just in the plug).

    RN-19 E1R, 3-pin keys. According to old catalogs these were used in some trunk locks?

    3-pin keys that are the reverse of the typical Yale RN-13. I've never seen these before or anything that uses these.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
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    Tonawanda, NY, USA
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by YALE7750 View Post
    Hi everyone,

    I recently came across some Yale keys I've never seen before. I was hoping someone might know what they were used for:
    RN-9 1/2 GMK, 4 pin length. Were these only for masterkeyed cabinet locks? I have a cabinet lock in GE section that is 4 pin, but only has 3 active pins, the 4th is a dead pin (no chamber in the bible, just in the plug).
    RN-19 E1R, 3-pin keys. According to old catalogs these were used in some trunk locks?
    3-pin keys that are the reverse of the typical Yale RN-13. I've never seen these before or anything that uses these.
    1. GMK as you know is the all section master to fit GA-GF multiplex keyways. 4-pin locks with .51" dia. plug on any of these keyways must have been for some special application, 5 or 6 pin is the common length for these.
    2. 19 was indeed used on old TA600 & TA601 pin tumbler trunk locks.
    3. Unknown, but reverse keyways are often used for security applications since they can be created without additional tooling costs by milling the keys and plugs backwards. An example is the Yale H-308 used by USPS for post office boxes which is the reverse of the 11.

    Pete Schifferli

  3. #3

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pschiffe View Post
    1. Unknown, but reverse keyways are often used for security applications since they can be created without additional tooling costs by milling the keys and plugs backwards. An example is the Yale H-308 used by USPS for post office boxes which is the reverse of the 11.

    Pete Schifferli
    Hi Pete,
    I am unfamiliar with that H-308 part number for Yale, where does it come from?
    There has long been confusion regarding Yale key blank part numbers in the US. Just for the sake of clarity:
    Many blank numbers are preceded a by a prefix such as RN or RB. RN means that the blank has a round bow and the material of the blank is nickle-silver.RB means a round bow and brass material.

    That prefix is followed by a number.
    If the number is an 11 it means that the key has a length and height that would allow it to operate a six pin door lock cylinder, (or padlock).If it is an 8 it means that the key has a length and height that would allow it to operate a five pin door lock cylinder, (or padlock).


    That number would be followed by the name of the key section EXCEPT for key section E1R for which the box is simply marked PARA to indicate that it is a paracentric keyway.Because the box is not marked with the section name locksmiths have presumed that it was what they call YALE 8.The US Post Office keyway is BTW, E1L. Those key section names can also be broken down to a better understanding, for example the R and L parts of the name indicate where in the cylinder plug the register groove is located, right or left.

    BTW, making a reverse key section isn’t accomplished at Yale any longer by mounting the plug in an opposite orientation. That was possible when they were located in Stamford, CT because the broach was a 20 foot vertical device that was discarded for a 8 foot horizontal broach when manufacturing left Stamford.That 8 foot device can’t accommodate a reverse mounting of the plug.

    BBE


  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBE View Post
    Hi Pete,
    I am unfamiliar with that H-308 part number for Yale, where does it come from?
    There has long been confusion regarding Yale key blank part numbers in the US. Just for the sake of clarity:
    Many blank numbers are preceded a by a prefix such as RN or RB. RN means that the blank has a round bow and the material of the blank is nickle-silver.RB means a round bow and brass material.

    That prefix is followed by a number.
    If the number is an 11 it means that the key has a length and height that would allow it to operate a six pin door lock cylinder, (or padlock).If it is an 8 it means that the key has a length and height that would allow it to operate a five pin door lock cylinder, (or padlock).


    That number would be followed by the name of the key section EXCEPT for key section E1R for which the box is simply marked PARA to indicate that it is a paracentric keyway.Because the box is not marked with the section name locksmiths have presumed that it was what they call YALE 8.The US Post Office keyway is BTW, E1L. Those key section names can also be broken down to a better understanding, for example the R and L parts of the name indicate where in the cylinder plug the register groove is located, right or left.

    BTW, making a reverse key section isn’t accomplished at Yale any longer by mounting the plug in an opposite orientation. That was possible when they were located in Stamford, CT because the broach was a 20 foot vertical device that was discarded for a 8 foot horizontal broach when manufacturing left Stamford.That 8 foot device can’t accommodate a reverse mounting of the plug.

    BBE
    Hi Billy,
    Yes, all of that is quite true; but the current key blank nomenclature is of rather recent vintage. For example; the RN10 4-pin nickel silver blank was formerly known as 10-1/2, the RN13 5-pin as 13-1/2 and the RN12 6-pin as 12-1/2. Yale Catalog No. 26 (c) 1929 illustrates "E1R" blanks as Nos. 8 and 11 etc. as does an old supplier catalog from Supplee Hardware Co. ca. 1902 at the link. The reference to H-308 comes from Locks, Safes and Security (c) 1971 by Marc Weber Tobias.

    Pete Schifferli

    See image here:
    http://www.antique-locks.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=12252





  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pschiffe View Post
    The reference to H-308 comes from Locks, Safes and Security (c) 1971 by Marc Weber Tobias.

    Thanks, that is obviously the current aftermarket contract manufacturers part number and not Yale.
    BBE.

  6. #6
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    Oct 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBE View Post
    Thanks, that is obviously the current aftermarket contract manufacturers part number and not Yale.
    BBE.
    Hi Billy,
    I'm not so sure, the reference states "Yale H-308". I could find nothing whatever on the "Acquisition and Standardization order of April 27, 1961" cited by Mr. Tobias. Here is a link to an image of the page I quoted, see paragraph 7.1 Post Office:
    https://books.google.com/books?id=W1...201961&f=false

    Pete

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pschiffe View Post
    Hi Billy,
    I'm not so sure, the reference states "Yale H-308". I could find nothing whatever on the "Acquisition and Standardization order of April 27, 1961" cited by Mr. Tobias. Here is a link to an image of the page I quoted, see paragraph 7.1 Post Office:
    https://books.google.com/books?id=W1...201961&f=false

    Pete
    Sounds like a serious cut and paste error on his part. The relevant part of the US (Criminal) Code is Title 18, Section 1704, shown here.

    Sec. 1704. Keys or locks stolen or reproduced

    Whoever steals, purloins, embezzles, or obtains by false pretense any key suited to any lock adopted by the Post Office Department or the Postal Service and in use on any of the mails or bags thereof, or any key to any lock box, lock drawer, or other authorized receptacle for the deposit or delivery of mail matter; or

    Whoever knowingly and unlawfully makes, forges, or counterfeits any such key, or possesses any such mail lock or key with the intent unlawfully or improperly to use, sell, or otherwise dispose of the same, or to cause the same to be unlawfully or improperly used, sold, or otherwise disposed of; or

    Whoever, being engaged as a contractor or otherwise in the manufacture of any such mail lock or key, delivers any finished or unfinished lock or the interior part thereof, or key, used or designed for use by the department, to any person not duly authorized under the hand of the Postmaster General and the seal of the Post Office Department or the Postal Service, to receive the same, unless the person receiving it is the contractor for furnishing the same or engaged in the manufacture thereof in the manner authorized by the contract, or the agent of such manufacturer -


    Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.

    As you can see above or search the code yourself, but there isn't any reference to a H-308. I fact, in legislation, congress goes to great lengths not to mention specifics such as keyways, etc. in order to make its application as broad as possible.
    BBE.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
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    Country: United States

    Default No 19 keys in surety sections?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pschiffe View Post
    1. GMK as you know is the all section master to fit GA-GF multiplex keyways. 4-pin locks with .51" dia. plug on any of these keyways must have been for some special application, 5 or 6 pin is the common length for these.
    2. 19 was indeed used on old TA600 & TA601 pin tumbler trunk locks.
    3. Unknown, but reverse keyways are often used for security applications since they can be created without additional tooling costs by milling the keys and plugs backwards. An example is the Yale H-308 used by USPS for post office boxes which is the reverse of the 11.

    Pete Schifferli
    Thanks for the info. As an aside, I've seen several very old 3-pin keys that appear to be Yale 19 keys in surety sections (GA,GB, etc.) In the old Yale & Towne catalog, I see no mention of master keyed TA600 or TA601 locks (catalog #26, pg 168). Did Yale make such locks in multplex keyways, and if not, what were the 3-pin surety section keys used for?

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Tonawanda, NY, USA
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    Country: United States

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by YALE7750 View Post
    Thanks for the info. As an aside, I've seen several very old 3-pin keys that appear to be Yale 19 keys in surety sections (GA,GB, etc.) In the old Yale & Towne catalog, I see no mention of master keyed TA600 or TA601 locks (catalog #26, pg 168). Did Yale make such locks in multplex keyways, and if not, what were the 3-pin surety section keys used for?
    The .40" dia. plug pin tumbler locks and keys were made in 3, 4, 5 & 6-pin versions. Both paracentric and surety keyways were available. These were primarily for cabinet lock applications but some may have been used for special OEM purposes like gaming, vending or switch locks that were never cataloged. One can only speculate. Yale exited the cabinet lock business decades ago.

    Pete Schifferli

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