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  1. #11

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    Hi all,

    I messed with the safe again today and very slowly and carefully dialed the combination and it didn't work. I reset and in the exact same fashion moved the handle towards the open direction until it felt like it was just touching what felt like a rotating wheel attached to the front dial (which bumps along as I rotate to the last number as if something attached to the handle wants to fall into grooves in the wheel with handle pressure). When I reach the last number I cannot simply turn the handle either. I have to rotate the handle back to the closed position (straight down) and then back towards open. In this manner it easily turns counterclockwise pulling in the bolts.

    I unscrewed the back door plate to look at the mechanism today and it has what looks like very old axle grease on some of the parts. This is now almost firm and very sticky. Would hosing the entire mechanism down with brake cleaner blindly break or harm anything? Or is this where I should stop?

    I took pictures, but I'm having trouble loading them onto this site.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    1,485
    Country: United States

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    Quote Originally Posted by Highplainsdakota View Post
    I took pictures, but I'm having trouble loading them onto this site.
    This might help: http://www.antique-locks.com/showthr...-to-your-posts

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Posts
    68
    Country: United States

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    Brake cleaner would work on the steel parts, but it could discolor brass parts. It shouldn't hurt anything though.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    St. Louis (63031), Missouri
    Posts
    69
    Country: United States

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    Hey Mr. Highplains,
    I have worked on enough of these safes to have lost count.
    Your problem.. the need to hold the handle, is from something not allowing the linkage clearance.
    Look inside the holes for the locking bolts. There is probably dirt or junk inside. Once, I found a square nail driven into the hole, I presume to prevent the opposite (boltwork coming out too far) from happening, but it came loose and got in the way.
    Also check to be sure the hinges are not worn. If so, that can make the door and boltwork lean toward the opening side, again causing undue pressure on the linkage (making it rub on the combo wheels) too.
    Unless you are a complete moron... I am assuming otherwise, take the cover off the back of the door, and spray some WD-40 on wear spots and even a spritz on the wheel pack (the combination lock) will not hurt, done sparingly. Wipe off the excess with a rag or paper towel. Put the cover back on. Lift off the door and grease the hinge pins with wheel bearing or plumbers' grease and put the door back on.
    If the door does not appear to sit squarely in the frame, pull out the hinge pins and replace them with new steel.
    Let me know how it goes. If you need help I am in St. Louis, Mo.

  5. #15

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    Here are some pictures inside the safe and door.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 20151001_180214.jpg   20151001_180224.jpg   20151001_180201.jpg   20151001_180120.jpg   20151001_180153.jpg  

    20151001_180148.jpg  

  6. #16

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    Does anyone know if the door on this safe simply might lift up and off the pins? I tried once but didn't lift too hard because I didn't think it moved. Maybe more force?

  7. #17
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    St. Louis (63031), Missouri
    Posts
    69
    Country: United States

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    You will need help with that door. Its probably about 150 pounds. It is not worth a hernia, seriously.
    First, get that nasty white grease off of there. Brake cleaner? If you want to, but WD 40 is a little less aggressive and leaves lube in its place. Take the three screws out of the round cover and pull it off. The wheel pack is attached. Make sure no white grease is inside there too. Clean it up, but no more than light oil should remain. Dont take it apart any more than that until you read up on combo locks more and understand them, ok? Put it back together and try it out. Remember. Get help with that door.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Posts
    68
    Country: United States

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    Taking the door off by hand could result in breaking the bottom hinge, so I would make sure to have it held properly if you choose to take it off. Do you even need the door off?

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Cleveland, Ohio USA
    Posts
    1,433
    Country: United States

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    Odds are the door does not need to come off. If the lock works better with the door in the open position, then it is a boltwork binding situation. If it works the same, it's not due to the fit of the door. *Note the forked end bell crank lever that is next to the round cover. With the round cover removed that fork drops down , blocking the the boltwork from retracting. Make sure you do not shut the door with the round cover removed. Below the round cover is the pivoting fence/lever that is pushed up into the wheel pack by turning the bolt handle. This can only happen after all the wheels have their gate openings aligned to the fence. With the round cover removed, you can inspect the operation as you dial in the combination and rotate the bolt handle. * Note that in order to do this inspection, you first have to tape up the forked relocker lever so the boltwork can pass into it. It may be one of the wheels is slightly misaligned, preventing the fence from easily entering into the wheel gates. Resetting the combination would correct this problem and that is what a safe technician armed with the proper change key tool would do. Visually aligning the wheel gates to align properly with the fence can be done, resulting in a slight change of the combination number(s). Also, you can solve a problem occurring with the fence/lever by altering it until it works properly. It is cast iron and can be filed and/or welded to build it up if necessary. There should be no grease on the fence/lever pivot post.
    Last edited by Doug MacQueen; 03-10-15 at 11:26 AM.

  10. #20

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    OK, So I took it apart further...

    The brass wheels inside the "3-screw cover" were quite clean. I still ended up hosing them off with brake cleaner. Then a solvent with light lubricating properties. I noticed that when the wheel pack came out, one brass disk was still attached to the dial and pinned in place with a small piece of iron. This was still held in rotation by the fence with the handle turned to open. While in this position, I rotated the dial and noticed it had play from numbers 28-32. The combination I was given ended in 28. I reassembled the mechanism and dialed the combination using 30 (mid range in the play) as the last number instead of 28 and it opened fine without any extra handle pressure. I think the combination was simply wrong.

    I will spend the next few days dialing the combination using variations of the first 3 numbers +/- 3 digits and use the middle number as the correct number for each stop (each number of the combination).

    Can anyone tell me how the change key works? It looks like small metal stops on the brass disks interdigitate with each other to reset the mechanism, and leave each disk in its proper location lined up with the fence in order to open the lock. Wouldn't I need new brass disks to change the numbers of the combination? Thanks

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