Antique complicated padlock

[locksmith]

Hello

This is my first post here so excuse me if i'm not following entirely the forums rules (please amend if so).
I have no knowledge about padlocks, keys nor anything about locksmith, so don't mind the user name. My passion is for watches actually.
I found this community while i was searching today on the internet info on a vintage, odd lock.
I found it on a weekend fair. Considering my passion, to my eye, was more then a chunk of metal. It is quite heavy and large, and probably made by iron. I did not take the time to measure or weight it yet. To my metal knowledge, that should put it before 1920's-1930's, if it's not a fake, of course.
It has a clock dial and a hour hand that may be part of the mechanism, and possibly a hidden key whole through the trap between the colonnades. The sad thing is that it did not came with a key.
The only mark (possibly makers mark) found is: TOTD, nothing else.

But enough with description. Find pictures attached:




I would like to ask if someone can estimate age, if it can be opened without damaging the mechanism and if it worth anything.


Regards
/F

[locksmith]

Just to update this old thread:

In the mean time, i was able to open the trap but not the lock, in lack of a key. It looks nice and pretty much sophisticated but i haven't deciphered it yet, neither i found any more information about the name or the provenance. A saxon friend said that it could be of saxon / german provenance due to the name but nothing else.

A nice weekend to all members!
/F

[locksmith]

Although my knowledge about antique padlocks has not improved much, i haven't give up opening the padlock presented a while back.
In the "opening" process, i have received some help from a good friend, although he is not a locksmith either.

After various attempts, he manufactured a raw key. So here is what he did so far:









As one can see, the key has 3 separate registers, while the register has a plain shape. I have been told that the second register is from the dial complication.
Although the key fits perfectly and turns completely, and every time it reaches 12 o clock it seems like it tensions a spring because the dial hand gets tensioned too and it's hard to move. The positions it seem to trigger something is 9:30 or 4:30, but it definitely feels like wheels gear between 4 and 5. Then after you turn the key from 12 to 3, it sounds like it snaps or like it should open, but in fact it doesn't.
It may well be yet another trick, or a number of key turns, or the hand should be set in various positions prior to opening and during opening or simply the mechanism inside is broken.
I don't know if other collectors have arrived to a madness point when they feel like they would better leave it as is or break it down. I admit i have also considered thinner the rivets and dismantle the face to see if there is something broken inside. The "only" downside is that it ruins the originality, although new rivets can be made, but nobody wants that, am i right ?

Thank you for your attention!

/F

[Lauren]

A lock like this (if it's the real deal) should be left alone. Don't take it apart. Should you ever sell the lock. Let the collector deal with it. Many collectors are perfectly satisfied on having just lock in the state it in. As for my self, I have to have keys for every thing, but that's just me.

[Arcade Al]

It's much too nice an item to damage it. It's frustrating not knowing how it works, but sometimes these mysteries are just a part of life...

[bbcci]

Hello F,
Don't lose faith yet, or patience!
It looks like you are making progress and your friend has put together a nice looking starter. Looking at the key cuts, it looks like he found 2 wards, which can be easy to spot, but I wonder how he arrived at the depth dimensions of the shallower cuts. A key can not lift levers high enough or some too high and still make a full rotation.
This is about as far as I can get with my limited experience, making a blank and cutting for wards. After that I have to hope I can pick the lock open somehow and then impression for the lever cuts.
I wish someone out there would know the function of the dial face and when to apply it. Would make picking easier with that knowledge.
Bill

[Doug MacQueen]

I found some very similarly shaped 1800's Austrian puzzle padlocks with fancy door covers in one of the books I have of the Schell lock collection in Graz. None with the dial though. Nice lock.

[locksmith]

Thank you all for the encouragement. I can assure you i will let alone... until a new idea hits me.
I will present any ideas about the key to my friend too, he is definitely much better then i could ever be with metals.

My watchmaker and mentor once told me that sometimes he can detect the issue just by looking at the watch. Whether that's true or not, he is a good craftsman. I sometimes applied "The men who stared at goats" tactics too but still no magic with me. :)

I have been around some nice pieces during my lifetime, and like anyone with a bit of sense and after paying the noob fee, i should known where to stop. But i have to admit, it still bugs me, so the mystery continues.

/Flo

[Doug MacQueen]

I would make up a 2 in 1 pick or at the very least a single thin bit on the end of a tube. The fact the key makes a complete turn is indicative that the bolt step is not in the correct position. Just conjecture on my part based on standard lever lock. Of course it may stray quite a bit from standard. Locating the individual levers will give against their springs. Locating the bolt talon with the pick should, if built like a standard lever lock, stop the pick dead. If it doesn't then it would seem the dial must interact with the bolt allowing the key to engage it. Dialing the pointer with only the pick in the lock may help to reveal the secret. Or you could just ship it over the me.

[Doug MacQueen]

Another possibility is that the dial operates a secondary bolt and the key allows engagement to this secondary bolt. Just throwing stuff out there. You mentioned something about a gearing feel.