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  1. #31
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    While I truly appreciate the pictures and the attempt to connect the development of safe and vault designs, I think you may be attributing more to Farrel than he deserves. That is not to put him down in any way. It is just that so much in the safe and vault designs is purely reactionary, and because of this it is not unusual to see the same or similar ideas popping up around the same time. Take pressure systems and crane hinges which you havre brought up. Once nitro came into use, makers strived to make the doors fit much tighter. Huh we have a problem. Yes we can slam it shut but we made the door so tight we can't pull it open. Make it even tighter and you can't even shut it. So the pressure bars and crane hinges come into use. I am not finding a Farrel patent regarding hinges for 1865 but here is a 1871 patent. I also don't know of a Diebold 1871 patent regarding hinges but maybe you have. Also included are a Diebold Kienzle showing a crane hinge and this safe is prior to 1874. A Herring Farrel showing the 1871 patent. A Harris, a Hall and a Detroit as well
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 101,245  Farrel & Weimar  1870.jpg   004_4_0001.JPG   Diebold Kienzle.JPG   Jos. Hall.JPG   Detroit.jpg  

    Harris.jpg  

  2. #32
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    Here is the Diebold vault crane hinge pressure patent from 1888, the earliest that I have found and 2 door examples. Both of these doors are as old or older that the Herring Marvin. I have not found very many doors of any make that are older, and unfortunately didn't take pictures of some of the ones I have seen.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails patent 384,262.jpg   007_7.JPG   005_5.JPG   030_30.JPG   027_27.JPG  


  3. #33
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    Took me a while to find my pictures, but here is an example of John Farrell's 1865 patent. I wish I had taken more time with this lock setup but at least I know where it is. It sounds like an active relocking devise. Knock the lock off the door and boltwork stays locked.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 1865.jpg   IMG_0002.jpg   IMG_0003.jpg   IMG.jpg   IMG_0001.jpg  


  4. #34
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    Wow that is incredible, very very interesting Doug. Surely that must be the earliest example relocking device then ?
    What’s particularly amazed me is that for the time i wouldn’t have expected much more than a crude spring loaded dead device triggered only by the lock parting company from the door. That on the other hand, sounds and looks quite an elaborate live relocker, or active as you said, effective every time the safe is used by the locking/unlocking action of the lock bolt. Amazing for the time that, you’ll be telling us the updated 1880 version had glass plates at this rate ! :-O

  5. #35
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    Tim, could you let us know the location of this Herring & Marvin door? I understand that's not always proper.

  6. #36
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    Default Herring & Marvin Vault Door

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  7. #37
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    Default Herring & Marvin Vault Door

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  8. #38
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    Default Herring & Marvin Vault Door

    I work in the northeast (New York city) where safe company's and lock manufacturers had factory's. I have seen and see new things in old safe every day. The pictures are of a Herring & Farrel safe with a jeweler chest. This safe is early 1860's. If you look at American Genius page 134&135 The Dexter lock that Herring & co used is not quite the same as the one in the picture of the safe I opened. The Dexter lock in the American Genius has a screw in the post for the lever. The Dexter in the safe pictures has no screw. The number on the lever post is the 31 lock made by Dexter. (15579 safe serial#)The improvement was add to the patent 1869. I'll look at pictures and post more. Enjoy the pictures Tim

  9. #39
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    Default Herring & Marvin Vault Door

    If you study the pictures the first thing is that All the bolts on this chest are rectangle. I found that most chest pictured have a mix of rectangle and 1 or 2 round on the opening side. If you look at the picture from the end of the door you can see the gear system to drive the bolt work. The active re-lock is also pictured locked and unlocked. In the unlock re-locker picture you can see the safe serial# stamped into the bed plate.The lock is in my private collection.
    The reason I say that Farrel & Herring had such a influence on other manufacturers is that I find these examples of early or strange safes and locks. I agree with you people can have similar ideas. Every day that I open one of these safes I lean something new. I hope all have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year !
    Enjoy Tim

  10. #40
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    Back to the original topic, Constellation doors.

    I've had this image for a while "borrowed" from an eBay auction (thus the unfortunate water marks) and just now realized it is a five-star door labeled as a Hermann. If I understand correctly, Hermann was not a manufacturer of doors; he would subcontract to others and relabel the products.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    The other side of this photograph was dated 7/30/1958 and stated:
    Ali Baba to the contrary, it will take more than an “open sesame” to get this giant, 15-ton door to open. The door, largest in the nation to be controlled via pushbutton, is being moved into place at the main offices of the American Trust Co. in San Francisco. It will guard a “burglar-proof, earthquake proof, fire-proof, bomb-proof" vault. At the touch of a button, the door will open and the footbridge will lower into the vault.
    The location should be 1 Grant Avenue, San Francisco, which currently houses The Ice Cream Museum.

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