Newbie with a Milners Safe query

[Dannyb]

Hi I am new to the world of forums, having never posted in one before.
I came across the site while trying to research a safe I've just bought.
I would love to find out more about my safe such as its age and model etc.
It's a Milners and bares the serial number 153535. The key has the same number on it with a 'C' at the top of the key ring loop.
All corners are square so I'm thinking its pre 1890 (from what I've read). Attached is a photo of the safe in its current condition.
I've now taken the safe to my local Metalworks. It's due for stripping and sand blasting and gloss black powder coat.

The brass will be polished and re fitted, really looking forward to having it back.

One other thing I would love to find out, is what the logo/info should have been on the inside of the door. Sadly the safe has been painted (badly) inside and no logo/info is left in there. During the restoration, the inside of the safe will be blasted and repainted. I would love to find out what should be on the inside of the door and maybe even source a reproduction of what should be there. can anyone help with this?

Any info or history about my safe will be greatly received.

Thanks in advance
Danny

[Huw Eastwood]

Hello Dannyb, yes your Milners is probably pre 1890s with its square corner construction. There are members who have old records and old catalogues so hopefully someone can narrow it down further for you.

not much else to add, it's one of their common fire resisting models for protecting paper documents back in the day, the 212 on the cast brass plate referring to the boiling point of water in Farenheit. Don't rely on it being fire resisting today though, most have deteriorated with age to the point of zero protection. It will have Milners' own standard powder proof 6-point fixing lock, 7 levers, with either a pipe or pin type key. It unfortunately offers zero burglary protection either, so they can really only be used as an interest piece or focal point. They do like nice painted up with clean brass work though.

with regard to the inside of the door, this has been covered in detail before. If you search 'Milners', 'Milners 212' etc on the site, it should come up. I remember a member was able to make reproductions for the back of the doors, a couple of the variations from what I remember, but this was some time ago. It might take some considerable time as not all are regulars on the site. Anyway Good luck with it and let us all see how it turns out.

[Huw Eastwood]

I've just noticed the handle on your safe is slightly different to what I'd have expected. Most of the 'T' shaped handles on Milners were smooth and more rounded with round roses (backplates). Yours has distinctive facets on the handle and rose where it's chamfered.

This got me looking back at all my old notes and found that from what I can see, a cast brass round knob with fluting was more common on the early square cornered fire resisting models.

But I also found an oddity from my fathers older notes, in that some of the early square cornered fire resisting safes were actually fitted with a Hobbs lock of a similar style to the Milners. Can't honestly say I'd encountered one with a Hobbs, but they're obviously out there. I'm sure Brian or someone will have an explanation for that. The handle on yours is certainly a different variation from what I'm used to seeing though.

[Dannyb]

Thanks for replying to my post.
Interesting stuff re: the handle.
I must admit it does look like it may have been changed at some point as the screw/pin through the back of the handle doesn't look very refined!
Having said that the handle and rose do it and function very well.
Would love to find a firm date from the serial number.

Its a shame the safe can't talk! I'd love to know where it has been in its life! I found it on eBay. It was in an old garage at a bungalow near Windsor that was being demolished!

[Dannyb]

Just had another quick flick around the internet looking a similar safes to mine to see what the handle variants were. I did see a lot with a round 'ball' type handle as you mention but these seem to be a lot closer to the key escutcheon?
Attached is a photo I found of another safe like mine (with a god awful paint job!) the handle is of the same type as mine.....

[safeman]

Hi I am new to the world of forums, having never posted in one before.
I came across the site while trying to research a safe I've just bought.
I would love to find out more about my safe such as its age and model etc.
It's a Milners and bares the serial number 153535. The key has the same number on it with a 'C' at the top of the key ring loop.
All corners are square so I'm thinking its pre 1890 (from what I've read). Attached is a photo of the safe in its current condition.
I've now taken the safe to my local Metalworks. It's due for stripping and sand blasting and gloss black powder coat.

The brass will be polished and re fitted, really looking forward to having it back.

One other thing I would love to find out, is what the logo/info should have been on the inside of the door. Sadly the safe has been painted (badly) inside and no logo/info is left in there. During the restoration, the inside of the safe will be blasted and repainted. I would love to find out what should be on the inside of the door and maybe even source a reproduction of what should be there. can anyone help with this?

Any info or history about my safe will be greatly received.

Thanks in advance
Danny

This is a List 2 Milner Fire-Resisting safe, the List 1 being a top-opening Fire-Resisting Deed Box. The escutcheon indicates that it has a Milner made lock rather than the Hobbs made Milner lock. Protecting the lock from drilling is a 3/8" ply-steel mount plate.

The square wrought iron body style continued up until 1902 when it changed to a 4 corner bend construction and in 1919 it changed again to a 12 corner bend of 3/16" sheet steel.

There is a slight mystery regarding the date of manufacture as the handle is of a very early style yet the letter 'C' indicates the year 1891.

The lock number 153535 comes from the period 1870's.

I attach a picture of a safe from a similar date showing the internal transfer.

[Dannyb]

Hi Safeman, thanks for your message.

The letter C only appears on the top of the key loop. It's not stamped on the safe itself anywhere.
I orignally coins the C could mean 1891 but I believe it would be stamped on the safe and the serial/lock number would be a digit shorter.

I stumbled across a document on the internet somewhere (can't find it again!) which, I think, gave a range of serial numbers. My number fell somewhere between 1860 & 1870 if that document is to believed.
Would make sense given your comment that the handle is a very early style.

Love the the inner door transfer. Would you have any idea if anyone on here has any reproduction ones?
I've found someone who has a reproduction door poster which some early safes were fitted with. The poster shows all the Milner models of the time and gives their prices!
If I can't get a transfer I may consider the door poster or at least have the poster rolled up inside.

[safeman]

Hi Safeman, thanks for your message.

The letter C only appears on the top of the key loop. It's not stamped on the safe itself anywhere.
I orignally coins the C could mean 1891 but I believe it would be stamped on the safe and the serial/lock number would be a digit shorter.

I stumbled across a document on the internet somewhere (can't find it again!) which, I think, gave a range of serial numbers. My number fell somewhere between 1860 & 1870 if that document is to believed.
Would make sense given your comment that the handle is a very early style.

Love the the inner door transfer. Would you have any idea if anyone on here has any reproduction ones?
I've found someone who has a reproduction door poster which some early safes were fitted with. The poster shows all the Milner models of the time and gives their prices!
If I can't get a transfer I may consider the door poster or at least have the poster rolled up inside.

This may be of some help but although straightened up the definition is still very poor. If you have an artistic flair you could try
printing this out and cleaning up the rough edges. Then you could try making it into a transfer - there is plenty information on
this in Google.

I also attach a couple of contemporary adverts for your general interest.



The door poster to which you refer comes from an earlier period shortly after the Exhibition
of 1851 when the locks were being made by Hobbs & Co.

[Dannyb]

Again Safeman, thanks for the info!