Hatton Gardens

[Huw Eastwood]

There have been a few upgrades of existing vaults down here in NZ. It is very dependent on space, either inside or outside.
Old doors are dropped out and replaced with new custom doors to suit insurance requirements.
If panels are being used a good tape measure is required as these are custom fabricated to fit the inconsistent dimensions of the old cast Vault.
Other cases involve casting an entire new vault around the outside of the existing one.

I just got my EN standards out and here are the resistance time requirements for complete access using Diamond core and thermal lance for grade XIII, 4500RU.(complete access 350 mm diameter hole)

Diamond Core Drill machine up to 11000W, and Core Drill with length to 1000mm. 116 minutes of attack

Thermal Lance with oxygen consumption of up to 1500L/min, and 20 x 3m oxygen lances. 108 minutes of attack

Need a Good Alarm!

Hello Redoubt- good to see you back
thats interesting about the different options used in NZ.
In Britain, most, if not all of those old vaults were made to custom imperial dimensions and I imagined there'd be inevitable complications with sizing and compatibility of the new modern euro modular panelled systems. But what you're saying shows it's possible, even going to the lengths of removing the door and custom making a replacement. That's amazing, as I'd doubt the majority of names over here, most of which are under Gunnebos control would go that far, but having said that the massive one-off door by Gunnebo for the Quatar gold vault was an impressive surprise for all of us. As far casting a new vault around the old one, wow. I know this'd be limited only to installations where it'd be possible but even so that's really dealing with the problem the way it should be dealt with! After considering your mouth-watering bespoke Treasury safes and what you've told us here, I think true safe and vault engineering is still 100% alive down your end of the Earth!

The 'need a good alarm!' Made me smile. It's now looking like Hatton Garden had one, and it was working ok, but it's a case of also 'need a good response to the alarm..'

[Safeone]

Adamantium ! Wow..what a great name. The days of Ant Music and Prince Charming come flooding back :-)

Could be worse, could be sat in a call trying to account for the millions of pounds worth of gems the police have found in your shed.

The ages of those arrested is a bit odd, never mind silver surfers we have a bunch of silver petermen here.

[Doug MacQueen]

Well I keep hearing that young people don't want to hard anymore. The surprising thing is that they apparently didn't use stolen plates on that van. And I would be willing to bet that prior to the heist, any recommendations for a vault upgrade would have gone nowhere.

[Chubby]

How would anybody go about fixing that wall?

[Huw Eastwood]

Relieved to see you're still around chubby! I went back and read your original opening post that started this whole Hatton Garden thread going and it got me thinking..

[Safeone]

How would anybody go about fixing that wall?

Well do you remember when the curtain pole pulled the rawplug out and left a hole ? Surely Polyfilla, in large enough quantity, would do the job?

On a serious note the wall having been breached must have to undergo a major re working ?

Had a good chat with Mike palmer regarding the insurance companies view of safes that have had cash drop facilities added to the body of the safe. Will try and recover the mail he sent. Interesting reading.

Oh and I have also thought about the hundreds of other boxes in the vault and the responsibility the company still has to them. And so it goes on......

[safeman]

I'd forgotten Chubbs anti-blowpipe barrier, and amazing it was developed in the 1920s, long long before my time! Safeman, you jogged my memory on that one, as thinking about it now can remember old archive pictures of it being poured molten into the doors, long before their TDR. Similar idea to the copper exposed in the Donsteel door being massacred over on the 'Old Mosler bank vault scrap or value' thread I would think.

Your Chubb and Tann references to their different approaches also brought back memories of Tanns 'Tanncrete I', 'Adamantium', 'Tanncrete II' etc. Amusing names for what was simply their concrete barrier!

Simply their concrete barrier indeed!

I would like to make a few points about security concrete. Firstly, the strength of standard concretes as we know is measured in N/mm2 and is the resistance to thrust or compressive strength. Security concrete however also requires to have very high tensile strength which can be achieved by adding fine steel stands to the mix. To reach the strength required the water content is lower than normal and therefore requires vibration.

General use concrete would be in the region of 30N/mm2 and for heavy industrial use, it would be about 40N/mm2.
Adamantium (tee-hee) with a strength of 77N/mm2 was designed and used by John Tann from 1923 and was part of the barrier make-up in safes and doors from that time.

With the development of demountable modular strongrooms in the 1970's, it was necessary to design super concretes for the relatively thinner panels and which in turn led to Tanncrete I and II for use in both safes, doors, and rooms. Test results in 1987 showed that strengths of 170 and 190 N/mm2 after 136 days was possible. Whether it be for the filling of safes or the pouring of vaults, the most important criteria is quality control from mix to mix and test cubes have to be taken, cured, and subjected to crushing tests by independent laboratories throughout the process.

To touch upon the limitations of upgrades, not all strongrooms conform to standard sizes but often designed by the architect to fit the general space requirements. The illustration shows the floor reinforcement and starter bars for the walls with the Tann Anchormesh mattresses being assembled within the 24" wall.

[safeman]

There have been a few upgrades of existing vaults down here in NZ. It is very dependent on space, either inside or outside.
Old doors are dropped out and replaced with new custom doors to suit insurance requirements.
If panels are being used a good tape measure is required as these are custom fabricated to fit the inconsistent dimensions of the old cast Vault.
Other cases involve casting an entire new vault around the outside of the existing one.

I just got my EN standards out and here are the resistance time requirements for complete access using Diamond core and thermal lance for grade XIII, 4500RU.(complete access 350 mm diameter hole)

Diamond Core Drill machine up to 11000W, and Core Drill with length to 1000mm. 116 minutes of attack

Thermal Lance with oxygen consumption of up to 1500L/min, and 20 x 3m oxygen lances. 108 minutes of attack

Need a Good Alarm!

Your readers might misinterpret the term 'minutes of attack' without realising that in testing terms it is 'net working time' and does not include setting up time, changing tool time, clearing broken tool time, thinking time, plus fatigue recovery time, with the clock only starting when the blow is struck and impacted or on-switch pressed and released.

Other major time factors which I've come across are : time in transporting 6 oxygen cylinders into the premises, re-assembling packed lances which have been shortened for concealment, setting up screens to blank out any flare from oxy-thermal tools, and taking fume diversion measures to ensure the smoke alarm doesn't activate even if the intruder alarm has been nobbled. Also, moving 2 ton safes within premises on scaffolding poles to a position where not overlooked by adjacent buildings.

[safeman]

Well do you remember when the curtain pole pulled the rawplug out and left a hole ? Surely Polyfilla, in large enough quantity, would do the job?

On a serious note the wall having been breached must have to undergo a major re working ?

Had a good chat with Mike palmer regarding the insurance companies view of safes that have had cash drop facilities added to the body of the safe. Will try and recover the mail he sent. Interesting reading.

Oh and I have also thought about the hundreds of other boxes in the vault and the responsibility the company still has to them. And so it goes on......

The usual method is to fit an emergency door of appropriate quality.

[Doug MacQueen]

Since core drilling vaults was the rule on serious vault lockouts here in the U.S. up until the 1990's, there would be many examples of repairs made. I am sure some are better than others. I have never watched one being done, but I suspect that a chipping hammer would be used to expose the steel rebar so new sections could be welded in. To improve on the security steel plates could be welded to the rebar. Then the concrete would be added. In most cases it would be finished off to make the patchwork disappear. Doug