Welcome to our world exploring the Historical, Political and Technological aspects of Locks, Keys and Safes

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 15
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    15
    Country: United States

    Default Making a blank from scratch.

    I joined this forum to get advice on a blank for a antique locking electric switch. I got the help I needed. Thank You.

    I have been reading other threads about getting a key when there is no blank. In some cases I think I can help with that.

    I am a mechanical designer. As such I have the tools to make a 3D model of a key blank. Once you have a model you have some options. You can have a machine shop machine a blank from brass or any other metal. You can have a shop cut using wire EDM the working part of the blank. This could be useful for a intricate key with narrow slots.

    You can also have a metal blank or finished key made using 3D printing. 3D printing is now at the point where precision parts can be made. There are two ways. A plastic 3D key is made, A mold is made from that key, then the mold is filled with molten brass and you have your key.

    Other companies can directly print metal parts using stainless steel, aluminum and other metals. One of the best is Solid Concepts. To demonstrate there skill they have 3D printed hand guns making every part except the springs. These guns have been tested and work as they should (BTW Yes, they are a licensed fire arm manufacturer.)

    When looking for my little key the lowest price I found was about $50. Depending on the size and the material used they could run as high as $250.

    I am not selling anything here. Just letting you know that the technology is available to make a single key blank.
    other mechanical designers or mechanical engineers could make a model as well.

    If someone needs a blank and has a key to measure I will give one a try. (free)

    Below is a picture of the model I made for my key.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Corbin Key-m.jpg 
Views:	7 
Size:	10.9 KB 
ID:	13343Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Corbin key line.jpg 
Views:	7 
Size:	5.3 KB 
ID:	13344

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Munich area, Bavaria, Germany
    Posts
    45
    Country: Germany

    Default

    Hi fdew

    I agree it's entirely possible these days, and not too expensive either. Have a look at this thread: http://www.antique-locks.com/showthr...cylinder/page4
    I'm in the process of designing a blank / key using the Shapeways service.

    Cheers
    mh

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    15
    Country: United States

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mhmh View Post
    Hi fdew

    I agree it's entirely possible these days, and not too expensive either. Have a look at this thread: http://www.antique-locks.com/showthr...cylinder/page4
    I'm in the process of designing a blank / key using the Shapeways service.

    Cheers
    mh
    Thanks, I had missed that thread. Everyone on this forum knows more about locks and keys then I do, but I don't know how much you guys know about making a model of a part.

    If you know all this then consider it info for the new people.

    As you probably know measurement is everything. The minimum tool would be a caliper, either dial or digital. It is usually best to build your model the way you think the key would be manufactured. First the full profile (Thickness and width, and length.) Then cut the grooves in the key (if it has them) or cut away stock to produce the shape. This keeps each step small and reminds you to think about how it was made so you don't draw something that is impossible to make. Also it makes it easier to go back and change things if they done add up.

    (Example, you make a slot on one side, then one on the other side, then you measure between them and don't get the same number as the real key. Time to go back and check everything.

    For places to narrow or to small for the calipers you need some junk. For example, to find the depth of a narrow slot, find a piece that will fit in there and stick out some. Drop it in and measure the key + the scrap. Measure the scrap and subtract that.

    If you are using digital calipers you can measure your scrap, and zero the caliper, then you will get a direct measurement. For width, find something that will fit nicely and measure that. Shim stock, scrap, business cards, and stuff from the kitchen are all handy.

    To measure odd shapes such as the bitting it may be helpful to clamp the key to something so that you have a flat surface parallel with the center of the blank. then you can measure from the flat to the key at a number of points along the key. In general, what I am saying is that it is often helpful to build jigs to help get measurements. These can be very crude and made from scrap.

    Once you have a good blank, another technique if your CAD will allow it is to take a picture of the profile you want, and then superimpose that picture on your model and trace.

    In the case of the key I modeled I found the radius of each bit, and then took a picture, overlaid my blank and placed the radius on the picture to form the surface.
    BTW A set of Radius gauges are handy but if you don't have them find something that just fits (Scrap, office supplies, or something from the kitchen, and then measure that somethings diameter.

    Pictures are also handy to get angles. You can blow up the picture enough to be able to measure it with a protractor. BTW Usually angles in anything that has been machined are even numbers. 15, 22.5, 30, 45, 60, ETC If I measured one at 14 I would assume it is really 15.

    Measure measure, then make a jig and measure some more.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    42
    Country: United States

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fdew View Post
    I joined this forum to get advice on a blank for a antique locking electric switch. I got the help I needed. Thank You.

    I have been reading other threads about getting a key when there is no blank. In some cases I think I can help with that.

    I am a mechanical designer. As such I have the tools to make a 3D model of a key blank. Once you have a model you have some options. You can have a machine shop machine a blank from brass or any other metal. You can have a shop cut using wire EDM the working part of the blank. This could be useful for a intricate key with narrow slots.

    You can also have a metal blank or finished key made using 3D printing. 3D printing is now at the point where precision parts can be made. There are two ways. A plastic 3D key is made, A mold is made from that key, then the mold is filled with molten brass and you have your key.

    Other companies can directly print metal parts using stainless steel, aluminum and other metals. One of the best is Solid Concepts. To demonstrate there skill they have 3D printed hand guns making every part except the springs. These guns have been tested and work as they should (BTW Yes, they are a licensed fire arm manufacturer.)

    When looking for my little key the lowest price I found was about $50. Depending on the size and the material used they could run as high as $250.

    I am not selling anything here. Just letting you know that the technology is available to make a single key blank.
    other mechanical designers or mechanical engineers could make a model as well.

    If someone needs a blank and has a key to measure I will give one a try. (free)

    Below is a picture of the model I made for my key.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Corbin Key-m.jpg 
Views:	7 
Size:	10.9 KB 
ID:	13343Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Corbin key line.jpg 
Views:	7 
Size:	5.3 KB 
ID:	13344


    It would be sooo much cheaper to bring Your switch to a locksmith & let him find You the key
    Have You ever looked in a key blank book?
    Last edited by billdeserthills; 02-04-15 at 06:35 AM.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    15
    Country: United States

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by billdeserthills View Post
    It would be sooo much cheaper to bring Your switch to a locksmith & let him find You the key
    Have You ever looked in a key blank book?
    As I said. I joined this forum to get advice on a blank for a antique locking electric switch. I got the help I needed. Thank You.

    More detail. I started with a blank book before coming to the forum. A kind member of this forum put me on to the correct blank. It is obsolete, but armed with the blank number I found some and bought them. I cut a couple of keys and I am happy. If I was looking for cheep I would have bought a new switch. I was looking for fun and education and I received both. Thank You Forum.


    What I wrote in this thread was intended to help those who have no blank and can't get one by sharing some techniques for making a 3D model. I wrote it partialy in responce to "Cleveland 4 way keys.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Munich area, Bavaria, Germany
    Posts
    45
    Country: Germany

    Default

    For those who want to try this using a computer with CAD software, I can recommend http://www.openscad.org - a free tool that is quite easy to use, you write a script that defines the model, incl. commands like cube (), translate (), and difference (). The good thing about this is: you can easily modify the first step without having to re-do all the other steps again.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    42
    Country: United States

    Default

    I don't know about other places, but I got my shop from my Dad and there are many older obsolete keys on the shelves.
    Many times a key made for a different purpose can simply have a new milling filed into it which keeps an old lock still usable.
    I detest throwing away anything that can be repaired

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    1,754
    Country: Wales

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by billdeserthills View Post
    I don't know about other places, but I got my shop from my Dad and there are many older obsolete keys on the shelves.
    Many times a key made for a different purpose can simply have a new milling filed into it which keeps an old lock still usable.
    I detest throwing away anything that can be repaired
    We were the same- kept absolutely everything. nearly a hundred boxes of old cylinder blanks from European stuff like Ronis, Huwil, Merroni, to Dominion Lock, Silca and Ilco. Even the one-off obscure box from Norway or Taiwan would always have it's use. You'd always find something close enough to modify.

    Any good shop should be more than capable of coming up with something for the average obsolete pin tumbler or disc/wafer tumbler locks out there. Milling and hand filing blanks to fit is all part of the job and process.

    I can fully understand why mhmh used 3-D printing for his project as it's a very challenging profile to create manually and by hand, but using 3-D printing for simple wafer and pin tumbler locks seems overkill to me. Like using a laser guided missile to remove the leaf on the grass..
    Last edited by Huw Eastwood; 03-04-15 at 09:42 AM. Reason: Spelling

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Munich area, Bavaria, Germany
    Posts
    45
    Country: Germany

    Default

    Actually, I'm quite sure I could make a working Norman key from brass stock.
    But it would take some time, needs matching (not-yet-exactly-known) cuts on both sides, and there's more than one request for such blank / key, so I thought - let's try another process for that one.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    1,754
    Country: Wales

    Default

    Well if you can do it I would definitely give it a go as you'll know exactly where your at with machined and filed brass. 3-D printing is undoubtedly amazing technology but strength for something like a working key might be an issue. Keys are subject to a lot of overlooked abuse in terms of torque, twisting, thermal shocks, being dropped etc. you won't have any worries with a traditionally made blank but anything printed may raise issues for anything other than a display key purely for show

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •