protector lock key duplication

[Gary Stephenson]

were any of the companies that made protector locks Kromer, Stuv, bode panzer etc, able to cut keys just from the locks serial number and records, or did they at least need a key, or even the key and the lock to produce duplicate keys?

[safeman]

were any of the companies that made protector locks Kromer, Stuv, bode panzer etc, able to cut keys just from the locks serial number and records, or did they at least need a key, or even the key and the lock to produce duplicate keys?

Hello Gary - how's your German?
Perhaps you can interpret what's illustrated from the pictures.
Taken from the Kromer centenary brochure. Capassacus ? would be in the best position to help you.

[Cepasaccus]

The process to make a lock with keys was to first cut the keys and then insert one of these keys into a lock like machine together with tumblers where the ends were to long. Turning the key moved the tumbler into the open position and then the ends were cut. AFAIK Kromer did not store key encoding. There is also no German tradition for this like in the US. So at least a key is required to get a new one.

In safeman's photo 4 is a machine for cutting the initial keys. Photo 5 shows a machine making tumblers. They don't say for which locks and I can't recognize the tumblers. It is possible that these were used for Protectors or Novums or only one of these. The Novums were also made by starting with the keys and then use one to unlock a tumbler pack without gates to prepare it for milling the gates. If you take a Novum pack and align the gates then you will see on most perfectly aligned two anti-picks on each side of the gate.

[safeman]

[QUOTE=Cepasaccus;33463]The process to make a lock with keys was to first cut the keys and then insert one of these keys into a lock like machine together with tumblers where the ends were to long. Turning the key moved the tumbler into the open position and then the ends were cut. AFAIK Kromer did not store key encoding. There is also no German tradition for this like in the US. So at least a key is required to get a new one.

Very grateful Cepasaccus. Thank you on behalf of Gary.

[Huw Eastwood]

From memory there's a member who's very experienced with kromer protectors and all things kromer, think it was probably oliver in Germany.

Also in germany recall Adrian (dicey), mentioned a few times the bench engineer that worked and set all the machines- think it was kromer but might've been one of the other factories.
Think he knew him either from business visits or factory tours, but can't remember exactly.

[Tom Gordon]

From memory there's a member who's very experienced with kromer protectors and all things kromer, think it was probably oliver in Germany.

Also in germany recall Adrian (dicey), mentioned a few times the bench engineer that worked and set all the machines- think it was kromer but might've been one of the other factories.
Think he knew him either from business visits or factory tours, but can't remember exactly.

it was certainly the case for Chubb detainer locks that the keys were cut and then the detainer slots cut to the keys whilst held in a jig - and probably still is.

[Gary Stephenson]

cheers all, I have 3g110 detainers and 6k174 levers uncut, I had been told that the protector keys could be cut from serial number and factory records, but thought that unlikely.

[Gary Stephenson]

I have turned up a pair of Kromer protector keys that have Chatwood Milner Ltd stamped on the Keybow, I have seen pictures of Chubb, Chatwood and Chatwood milner marked protectors, and also seen them on Stratford FTS strongroom doors, did any other uk makers use them?
lock number was 279405
B for bottom lock
safe number S50481

[Cepasaccus]

From the serial I think this one is second half of the 20s, if that helps.

[Gary Stephenson]

cheers