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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
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    Maine
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    21
    Country: United States

    Default code

    I also saw the number on the bottom either 68 or 89 which should be the code. If you can id the lock from the writing on a cut key or from the lock case you may be able to get some help from old code books. Arnold Sintniklass is a good source for old books with information. If you have an original key and the code number it may give information about the other locks

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Edinburgh
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    259
    Country: UK

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    I suggest what Chubby means by 'detainer' is end-gated levers, which are common in such locks. Please remove a lock cap and show a picture of the levers inside.
    Two systems of mastering are common in such locks. As already mentioned, with end-gated levers,it is possible for levers to have two gates, one for the change key and one for the master. If this system is used, inspection of two locks will reveal the masterkey combination. Fitting a first key with such a lock dismantled is mainly a matter of careful filing/sawing. Unfortunately for the OP, it is perhaps not a skill much practiced in the USA now, as such locks are now little used there.

    The other system of mastering uses a dummy lever with a stump which passes through the differing levers - it is typically the bottom or top lever. Change keys do not touch the dummy lever. The masterkey does not touch the differ levers. Instead, it lifts only the dummy lever, and the stump passing through holes in the differ levers lifts all of them simultaneously to their correct heights. Such locks, if correctly identified, are easy to pick.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Bulgaria
    Posts
    686
    Country: Bulgaria

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    Quote Originally Posted by chubbbramah View Post
    I suggest what Chubby means by 'detainer' is end-gated levers, which are common in such locks. Please remove a lock cap and show a picture of the levers inside.
    Two systems of mastering are common in such locks. As already mentioned, with end-gated levers,it is possible for levers to have two gates, one for the change key and one for the master. If this system is used, inspection of two locks will reveal the masterkey combination. Fitting a first key with such a lock dismantled is mainly a matter of careful filing/sawing. Unfortunately for the OP, it is perhaps not a skill much practiced in the USA now, as such locks are now little used there.

    The other system of mastering uses a dummy lever with a stump which passes through the differing levers - it is typically the bottom or top lever. Change keys do not touch the dummy lever. The masterkey does not touch the differ levers. Instead, it lifts only the dummy lever, and the stump passing through holes in the differ levers lifts all of them simultaneously to their correct heights. Such locks, if correctly identified, are easy to pick.
    "End gated levers" works fine for me. Look at the 3G110, 3K70 etc. and you will see what I mean. Chubb always referred to these as detainers which is why I use the term as well. Masterkeying them is as easy as falling off a log.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Edinburgh
    Posts
    259
    Country: UK

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    "End gated levers" works fine for me. Look at the 3G110, 3K70 etc. and you will see what I mean. Chubb always referred to these as detainers which is why I use the term as well.

    Ah - slight difference of words, and history. The early levers had pockets and gates, until the outer pocket was simply removed, and the bolt stump enters the gate now on the outer edge or 'end' of the lever.
    Antony Strutt's 1818 patent used a crank and movable detainers. One end is a probe which enters the gate in the end of the detainer, then the other end allows the bolt to move. Butter developed several locks based on this idea, obtaining several patents in the 20C, whilst working for both Union and Chubb. He designed the 'detainer' locks of the Chubb Detainer range.

    Strutt's idea was also used in some US pancake push key padlocks, and in the Ingersoll M6 mortice lock - unusual in having the bolt tail in the middle of the lever pack.

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