core drilled a vault

[jgriner]

our company core drilled a bank vault, last week, I thought i would share the pics with you.

here is a pic of the problem, the bank reported the middle tl had been broken for a while, yet they kept cranking time on it. They ran it all the way around until it hit the backside of the locking bar. It locked it to the left where the bar has to move to the right to unlock the door, it stalled out the other time locks at about 2 hrs.

[Yankee]

Nice job...how long did the drilling take? It must have been a funny feeling to crawl through the hole, open the day gate and press down on the time lock release. So simple a problem, so hard a solution.

[jgriner]

Nice job...how long did the drilling take? It must have been a funny feeling to crawl through the hole, open the day gate and press down on the time lock release. So simple a problem, so hard a solution.

It took just under 2 hours, it was an old "poured on site" vault the 18in thick. Im a big guy so I was not the one going though the hole.

[wylk]

I'm not sure what all the tape on the door and the 4x4 are doing.

Also, I assume there were tradeoffs as to whether to core drill a wall versus drill the door. Could you elaborate?

[jgriner]

I'm not sure what all the tape on the door and the 4x4 are doing.

Also, I assume there were tradeoffs as to whether to core drill a wall versus drill the door. Could you elaborate?

Most lock outs are caused by overwinding timelocks, if there is time on all the clocks the vault will not unlock, once one runs down to 0 it unlocks the door and the others are redundant. Most lock outs last only a few hours, and there is nothing i can do to open the vault.

The first step is to wait, next is to see if you can hear the clocks running, next is to wait until the maximum amount of possible time for the timelocks, (these were 120 hour movements so thats 5 days.)

then you give the door a couple of love taps, see if you can shake something thats locked it up loose. Luckily the timelocks where right under the hinge, so i popped off the hinge cover and could beat on it without damaging the door. The 4x4 was for the love taps.

then you wait some more, maybe you got the timelocks clicking. (hehe not a fast process, nor cheap so you wait a lot.)

after that you beat the hell out of the door, in hope to shake something loose.

then you core drill it.
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not really sure the reason behind core drilling the vault instead of attacking the door. its pretty rare you go through the door. maybe its more of ease of repair, with the core drill you, drill hole, install rebar and pour concrete. done

on the vault you would drill a hole, have the parts damaged machined, repair the hole, reskin the front of the vault.

[Huw Eastwood]

Wow- now that's what I call a core drill!

Over-wound time-locks is a common one- always told them to just sit it out and wait as it's probably only wound a few extra hours, and often it'd be a safe which would take longer to get there and drill open anyway.

Had a classic about 20 years ago for a Post Office where they knew they'd over-wound the clocks- advised them to wait until it released but they weren't having it- said they had stamps and orders and all sorts of stuff they needed out to trade. The safe was one of the big Gov/MoD Grade 1As used by all the big Crown offices- a PO Counter variation, set in the wall.

I explained that they were 2 hours drive away, and that it takes an hour and a half just to drill just a half inch hole through the barrier material, so they'd be looking at several hours until it was open anyway.

the G1As are superb safes- very heavy construction, lots of glass and loads of relockers- some of the large sizes had as many as 10. I'd have to pop an exploratory hole through the door in a safe area away from the glass, just to locate the time-lock with the scope, and then drill another hole to deal with it. It was going to be late in the day anyway by the time the safe would be open, so they might as well just sit it out and save a lot of money. They still wouldn't have it, and insisted we attended asap. So, off I went and arrived there about midday.

Listened for the time-lock with a stethoscope and sure enough, it's still running. Drilled the first hole, located the TL, drilled second hole, and couple hours later opened the TL and the door, and no surprise all movements still ticking away. Called them in and they both couldn't wait to look and see how much time they'd over-wound. As they're both stood there, blaming each other and looking at it....click....TL releases!! Only time I ever had this happen- so glad it didn't release before I got it open...must be one in a million chance but If they'd waited just 2 minutes longer than it took me to drive 150 miles and drill it they'd have saved themselves a fortune! Had all of the stellite 'sandwich' plugs to make for it, new time-lock bar, all the welding and painting etc so overall a lot of work for the difference of about 2 minutes!

[Huw Eastwood]

I forgot to add that's a really neat core, can clearly see how slim the cutting face is- the grey speckles look like aggregate probably used in the mix, but there doesn't look to be any form of spiral mesh reinforcement, rebar, or any of the twisted plate barriers like Tangbar or Tordbar? I would have thought that's unusual not to have any steel reinforcement as you proved how quick a man sized hole can be cored out

[wylk]

How large was the hole? 18 inches, 24 inches, ...?

It is probably important to core drill the wall where, on the inside, there is not some difficult obstacle like a big safe or nest of boxes that might block further access. Any "oops" stories about this?

[David Hovey]

Bank Vault Door Lockouts!!

A topic I hold near and dear to my heart, and which brings much debate among the different financial institutions, company executives, and S&V technicians.

In my opinion, most if not all lockouts can be neutralized by drilling the door, including models with glass. Granted, many factors play in the decision to core the wall or drill the door, but most core jobs I see would have been better off if the door was drilled.

I can drill and repair this door quickly and professionally, and with much less mess or damage. The whole process can be done same day during banking hours with very little disturbance. So in many cases as this Lefebure 5000 series door, I can't understand why the wall was cored as apposed to the door drilled, especially with it's common time-lock malfunction.

DH

[jgriner]

I forgot to add that's a really neat core, can clearly see how slim the cutting face is- the grey speckles look like aggregate probably used in the mix, but there doesn't look to be any form of spiral mesh reinforcement, rebar, or any of the twisted plate barriers like Tangbar or Tordbar? I would have thought that's unusual not to have any steel reinforcement as you proved how quick a man sized hole can be cored out

the grey spots in the core is all rebar you can see there was 3 layers of rebar in it. i dont have a close up of the core but it did have lots or rebar. about 3/4 the way through the drill kept stalling out, the core guy pulled the hole saw out sharpened it and it still kept stalling. he said, i know whats wrong and he pulled the drill out again ran a coat hanger around the grove and out popped a slice of rebar.
the drill we used was a 480v monster.

How large was the hole? 18 inches, 24 inches, ...?

It is probably important to core drill the wall where, on the inside, there is not some difficult obstacle like a big safe or nest of boxes that might block further access. Any "oops" stories about this?

yeah here is my professionally drawn cad drawling of where all the sd boxes are.

Bank Vault Door Lockouts!!

A topic I hold near and dear to my heart, and which brings much debate among the different financial institutions, company executives, and S&V technicians.

In my opinion, most if not all lockouts can be neutralized by drilling the door, including models with glass. Granted, many factors play in the decision to core the wall or drill the door, but most core jobs I see would have been better off if the door was drilled.

I can drill and repair this door quickly and professionally, and with much less mess or damage. The whole process can be done same day during banking hours with very little disturbance. So in many cases as this Lefebure 5000 series door, I can't understand why the wall was cored as apposed to the door drilled, especially with it's common time-lock malfunction.

DH

well, im new to drilling vaults, ive been in the industry for 10 years, and ive never drilled anything larger that a coin vault. last company had a locksmith that would travel out from the office and drilled anything with a relocker or a hardplate. So im not sure y it was decided to go through the wall, but hindsight is 20/20 we had no idea y the vault was locked up. this vault had wire relockers, the combo packs were also set screwy, they have to run both to unlock the door, not just one. we were sure that the combos were fine because the were going to the stop point.