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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    1
    Country: United States

    Default Key Duplicator circa ~ 1930s to 1940s (Independent Lock Company)

    My brother bought this duplicator that is in a bit of rough condition. We turned it on but only briefly as a motor that has been sitting for a long time should be properly maintained before doing so. With that all said and to be clear - it's a restoration project for whoever buys it. It used to be used in a private hardware shop and is screwed down to a piece of plywood. If anyone has any interest, I'll provide some pictures. If not, we'll probably just scrap it!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    293
    Country: UK

    Default

    Although I'm in the wrong country I would still like to see pictures, and I'm sure others on here would like to as well :)

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Tonawanda, NY, USA
    Posts
    900
    Country: United States

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Stargazer View Post
    My brother bought this duplicator that is in a bit of rough condition. We turned it on but only briefly as a motor that has been sitting for a long time should be properly maintained before doing so. With that all said and to be clear - it's a restoration project for whoever buys it. It used to be used in a private hardware shop and is screwed down to a piece of plywood. If anyone has any interest, I'll provide some pictures. If not, we'll probably just scrap it!
    Ilco made several models of key machines in that era including:
    • The Improved American
    • The Improved Duplex
    • The Universal
    • The Improved Minute
    • Tubular

    All were offered either ala carte or mounted on a board with motor. It is impossible to judge interest without knowing the specific model and condition. Some can be quite valuable while others are best used as boat anchors. My two cents.

    Pete Schifferli

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Frankfurt Main
    Posts
    705
    Country: Germany

    Default

    Would be interesting to see one of those fully intact.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Maine
    Posts
    21
    Country: United States

    Default Ilco 179m minute

    Next week I will take a few pictures of this machine which was my first machine when I started and is still in use today. It does bit and barrel keys as well as flat and paracentric. I have not had to replace cutters but once in 40+ years and that was because I was too much in a hurry and broke a few teeth. It is a real work horse and very heavy.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    4
    Country: United States

    Exclamation Very Interested! Have one I am restoring now

    Quote Originally Posted by Stargazer View Post
    My brother bought this duplicator that is in a bit of rough condition. We turned it on but only briefly as a motor that has been sitting for a long time should be properly maintained before doing so. With that all said and to be clear - it's a restoration project for whoever buys it. It used to be used in a private hardware shop and is screwed down to a piece of plywood. If anyone has any interest, I'll provide some pictures. If not, we'll probably just scrap it!
    I hope I am in time and you have not thrown the Indepent Lock Tubular machine out. I have one and am trying to get it functional but without any instructions have had a heck of a time! We are trying to figure out what a proper replacement bit it takes. We are having problems cutting the proper width. It is slightly off and not wide enough. Do you have any info you could share? Thanks, Chuck

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Tonawanda, NY, USA
    Posts
    900
    Country: United States

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cahoca View Post
    I hope I am in time and you have not thrown the Indepent Lock Tubular machine out. I have one and am trying to get it functional but without any instructions have had a heck of a time! We are trying to figure out what a proper replacement bit it takes. We are having problems cutting the proper width. It is slightly off and not wide enough. Do you have any info you could share? Thanks, Chuck
    I don't think it was ever stated what model the old Ilco key machine was, however probably not tubular. But to answer your question, those old tubular machines used a 3/16" dia. end mill and that cutter is still available from Ilco as P/N 16CT end mill with a sugg. dlr. of $48.93 ea., they are made of high speed steel. We make them ourselves from Kennametal DHEC188S4 KC610M solid carbide 3/16" dia. 4-flute double end mills. Cut to length with a diamond saw, this yields two v-e-r-y long lasting cutters. Purchased on eBay for a few dollars each. Hope this is helpful.

    Pete Schifferli

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    4
    Country: United States

    Default Thanks for your help! Here is Pictures of Independent Lock Model B Tubular Cutter

    Quote Originally Posted by Pschiffe View Post
    I don't think it was ever stated what model the old Ilco key machine was, however probably not tubular. But to answer your question, those old tubular machines used a 3/16" dia. end mill and that cutter is still available from Ilco as P/N 16CT end mill with a sugg. dlr. of $48.93 ea., they are made of high speed steel. We make them ourselves from Kennametal DHEC188S4 KC610M solid carbide 3/16" dia. 4-flute double end mills. Cut to length with a diamond saw, this yields two v-e-r-y long lasting cutters. Purchased on eBay for a few dollars each. Hope this is helpful.

    Pete Schifferli
    Thanks for your help. Here are some pictures of the machine I need the bit before. I have never seen anything like it anywhere. It is an Independent Lock Company 2181D Model B Tubular Code Machine and is probably the first tubular code machine developed. I AM looking for a bit replacement for this and have pics of that also. I hope this is the original one that came with it. If you can give me model number and where to buy, I'll order right away too. If anyone has any instructions or manuals on it. I am looking for those also.

    Here are some pics to share of this rare machine. It looks to be very heavy duty too
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails ILCO3.jpg   ILCO2.jpg   ILCOBIT2.jpg   ILCOBIT.jpg   ILCO1.jpg  


  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Tonawanda, NY, USA
    Posts
    900
    Country: United States

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cahoca View Post
    Thanks for your help. Here are some pictures of the machine I need the bit before. I have never seen anything like it anywhere. It is an Independent Lock Company 2181D Model B Tubular Code Machine and is probably the first tubular code machine developed. I AM looking for a bit replacement for this and have pics of that also. I hope this is the original one that came with it. If you can give me model number and where to buy, I'll order right away too. If anyone has any instructions or manuals on it. I am looking for those also.
    Here are some pics to share of this rare machine. It looks to be very heavy duty too
    That was indeed one of the first tubular key machines. The 181D was priced at $39.50 as of Feb. 28, 1941. It was actually sold in four different models, 181D was the ala carte version and while 2181D was mounted on a board with motor. The identical machine was also sold by Keil Lock Co. of Charlestown, NH (an Ilco subsidiary) as models 9 and 9-1/2 respectively. In those days, to make a duplicate; you would first measure the cuts using the decoding device mounted on the machine. Thus, it could also be used to cut a key by code. Although there are now many variations of tubular keys, this machine was designed solely for the original Chicago Ace 7-pin 137CLC/99534 .377"OD (Ilco 1137) blank. As I indicated in my previous post, Ilco still offers high speed steel end mill cutters for this machine, No. 16C (16CT) @ $48.93 sugg. dealer. These are stocked in Rocky Mount and could be ordered from any locksmith wholesaler. I am repeating my earlier suggestion that you source a solid carbide one from eBay for a couple bucks. I have that on my machine (a later model 2381D), it works just fine and should last a lifetime. I hope this is helpful.

    Pete Schifferli

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    4
    Country: United States

    Default How do you set depth etc on new cutter

    Quote Originally Posted by Pschiffe View Post
    That was indeed one of the first tubular key machines. The 181D was priced at $39.50 as of Feb. 28, 1941. It was actually sold in four different models, 181D was the ala carte version and while 2181D was mounted on a board with motor. The identical machine was also sold by Keil Lock Co. of Charlestown, NH (an Ilco subsidiary) as models 9 and 9-1/2 respectively. In those days, to make a duplicate; you would first measure the cuts using the decoding device mounted on the machine. Thus, it could also be used to cut a key by code. Although there are now many variations of tubular keys, this machine was designed solely for the original Chicago Ace 7-pin 137CLC/99534 .377"OD (Ilco 1137) blank. As I indicated in my previous post, Ilco still offers high speed steel end mill cutters for this machine, No. 16C (16CT) @ $48.93 sugg. dealer. These are stocked in Rocky Mount and could be ordered from any locksmith wholesaler. I am repeating my earlier suggestion that you source a solid carbide one from eBay for a couple bucks. I have that on my machine (a later model 2381D), it works just fine and should last a lifetime. I hope this is helpful.

    Pete Schifferli
    I hate to keep asking you questions but you are the best and only source for this I have- LOL When we took the machine apart and cleaned it, there were shims at the base of the mount that holds the key blank side. Not sure what these were for but I'm guessing they may have something to do with setting the depths and calibration. We tried our best to try and get these right but the cutter is still not cutting the side depth properly. Do you know the correct way to calibrate a new cutter on this? Have been able to verify we have a correct cutter replacemnet thanks to your help too. We just bought one and was not sure if the dimensions were right but this checks out okay. Was absolutely thrilled to finsd out about the decoder on the machine. I was racking my brain trying to figure out what it was! LOL Thanks so much for taking the time to help. Chuck

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