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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    3
    Country: United States

    Default Sargent mortise lock: What is the function of the two buttons?

    Hello, All:

    I have an old (1920-1930-ish) Sargent mortise lock that uses a modern style key (NOT a skeleton key). There are two push buttons on either side of the in-out latchbolt. What is the function of these push buttons?

    Thanks!

    Ed Rouze

  2. #2

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EdRouze View Post
    Hello, All:

    I have an old (1920-1930-ish) Sargent mortise lock that uses a modern style key (NOT a skeleton key). There are two push buttons on either side of the in-out latchbolt. What is the function of these push buttons?

    Thanks!

    Ed Rouze
    They are called Stop Works Buttons. When they are functioning correctly 1 will prevent the knob on the outside from retracting the latch and the other will allow it to be retracted. Push one, see what it does, then push the other to see what it does.
    BBE.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    3
    Country: United States

    Default Thanks

    Thanks ... that is what I thought the buttons did, but as the lockset is not in a door, I wasn't totally certain. again, thanks! -- Eddie

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Frankfurt Main
    Posts
    705
    Country: Germany

    Default

    Never heard of these, sounds interesting, any pictures guys :)?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    148
    Country: United States

    Default

    Here is a picture from BBE's site, at least the lock I am most familiar with based upon the description.

    http://www.1st-net-lock-museum.com/ca3.htm

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Unfortunatly: New Jersey
    Posts
    62
    Country: United States

    Default

    https://images.search.yahoo.com/imag...22&fr2=piv-web

    Pressing one button disables the outside thumbpiece or knob requiring the key to withdraw the latch this is usually accomplished by making the outside trim "rigid". The inside trim is unaffected. Pressing the adjacent button removes this condition. Some mortise locks automatically apply this function as well depress the button EVERY TIME the deadbolt is extended, it will then remain in this state until you manually press the other button. Many a people get locked out of their home by this function due to them believing the whole lock is unlocked because the inside remains open for free egress.


    --Vince

    PS. (to Adrian) Did you ever think of one day visiting the Indy lock show here in the US?
    There is SO much stuff that'll be right up your ally... your head might just explode! LOL!!!

    .

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    2
    Country: United States

    Question Mortise Lock Stop Works Buttons Questions

    Hello Antique Locks Forum! I have two questions that I'm hoping the experts here can answer.

    I have an old-ish house with some old-ish doors. One door has the mortise lock with the stop works buttons. After reading this thread, I learned that it is not working properly. The toggled stop works button disables both the interior and exterior handles/knobs. The interior, turnable latch moves the deadbolt, it does not toggle the buttons. My assumption is that the exterior keyhole will toggle them, but we don't have a key to test. However, this means that you could be locked INSIDE the house (althouh you can't, as there are two other doors). At present, if we were to toggle the stop works and close the door, we would not be able to open it (without having to call one of you).

    1. If I were able to find the key (it could happen), can the lock be fixed to allow the internal knob to turn freely when the stop works buttons are toggled? In the pictures I've seen, I can't see a way to allow one knob to work while the other is held. How can that happen?

    2. Does it make sense to anyone here that the system didn't just break and that it was rigged to keep the door from being opened from the inside (and is this a common thing to do/be able to do)?

    Thanks!
    WD

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Tonawanda, NY, USA
    Posts
    900
    Country: United States

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by WhiskeyDaisy View Post
    1. If I were able to find the key (it could happen), can the lock be fixed to allow the internal knob to turn freely when the stop works buttons are toggled? In the pictures I've seen, I can't see a way to allow one knob to work while the other is held. How can that happen?
    2. Does it make sense to anyone here that the system didn't just break and that it was rigged to keep the door from being opened from the inside (and is this a common thing to do/be able to do)?
    Thanks!
    WD
    A mortise entry lock is designed so that the interior knobs are always free for immediate exit, this is a life safety requirement and should not be bypassed. The stop work buttons should only lock the exterior knobs. This is accomplished by using a split hub and swivel knob spindle. It is possible the hubs and spindle are not properly aligned or you may have worn or broken parts inside the lock case. This is something a locksmith should be able to easily diagnose. The thumbnail attached may help explain how this works, I hope this is helpful.

    Pete Schifferli
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails SagerMortiseLockPartsList.jpg  

  9. #9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by WhiskeyDaisy View Post
    Hello Antique Locks Forum! I have two questions that I'm hoping the experts here can answer.

    1. If I were able to find the key (it could happen), can the lock be fixed to allow the internal knob to turn freely when the stop works buttons are toggled? In the pictures I've seen, I can't see a way to allow one knob to work while the other is held. How can that happen?
    As Pete mentioned there is a spindle that goes through the lock and the door. Inside the lock the part the spindle goes through is called the HUB. That hub can be made in two halves, one close to the outside and the other closer to the inside. Typically the one closer to the inside has a smaller hole for the spindle. The spindle is what the knobs are attached to and, for this type of lock, is also in two parts so that each may turn independently, i.e. a split spindle. If the alignment of where it is split is off it may not work properly. It is also possible that the two halves of the spindle can be tightened to much against each other not allowing them to turn independently.

    2. Does it make sense to anyone here that the system didn't just break and that it was rigged to keep the door from being opened from the inside (and is this a common thing to do/be able to do)?
    Another thing that can cause a problem is if someone replaced the split spindle with a solid one. If it is a split spindle then the alignment is most likely the problem.
    BBE.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    2
    Country: United States

    Default Thanks!

    Thanks for your help! I now understand how the lock is supposed to work. I'm thinking that the split spindle was replaced with a solid one. That seems like the kind of, uh, work that had been done on the house in the past.

    If I ever find the key, I'll try to get it fixed. However as it stands, the buttons are very difficult to press, so I'm not concerned with them accidentally locking.

    Have a great day,
    WD

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