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  1. #41
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    Default

    Also there is much less cash held these days as most people pay for everything by plastic. In the old days even robbing a supermarket could land a big sum of money.

  2. #42
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    Default The facts are ......

    Quote Originally Posted by Chubby View Post
    Tann used to refer to their "unbeaten" (note not unbeatable- actually never, ever forced) range of heavy safes. I have never, ever seen one opened by a criminal. I think they didn't want to put the Tann name on anything that wasn't a real banker! Given the sophistication of banks' systems I just can't see how anybody would ever get into one. Imagine drilling or cutting a Reliance strongroom door, then being faced with a Tann Banker! I once heard that a bank can't close for more than 4 days without an act of parliament. I don't know if that is true but even over Xmas and Easter they close for only 4 days. So that would be your maximum timescale. Unless you know just where to cut you wouldn't stand a chance! I suppose that is why coming through the wall and then raiding the deed boxes of customers was the usual route.

    Sorry to break the news Chubby but Tann, in the post-war years, like every other maker, have had their safes opened by criminals.

    Why else within 10 years would Tann upgrade their Bankers Safes from Mark 5 to Mark 9 and then start a completely
    new series from Bankers Treasury to TS4? Because they could see what the criminals were doing with basic oxy-fuel torches, disc cutters, and packed lance. That's the way safes and criminals get better - leap frog.

    At that time (1970's) intruder alarms were being circumvented by dishonourable security and alarm company employees so safes and strong rooms had to stand or fall solely on their inherent strengths.

    The reality is that even the strongest safes made, when tested by the world's safe testing establishments, are graded
    to resist up to a maximum of one hour (net working time). Putting this in context - the clock only starts and finishes as the particular tool is applied so there no fatigue factor to take into account (very significant). Neither is there any restriction in noise or smoke emitted.

    This extract illustrates to range of tests by the Underwriter's Laboratories from 15 to 60 minutes, door only, and total six sided with increasingly effective tools.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  3. #43
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    Feb 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by safeman View Post
    The safe number 78494 was made late 1971 or early 1972 at the time
    of the Mark 5 Series Bullion.
    Is there a way of working out the age of a Tann safe by the sequence of numbers or is it purely a refering to a database of numbers that enables you to do this ?

    Could do with knowing what 56707 relates to in age and model if poss. Oh and there is a SB above the number which is on one of the door bolts as the the Bullion picture I posted.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Safeone View Post
    Is there a way of working out the age of a Tann safe by the sequence of numbers or is it purely a refering to a database of numbers that enables you to do this ?

    Could do with knowing what 56707 relates to in age and model if poss. Oh and there is a SB above the number which is on one of the door bolts as the the Bullion picture I posted.
    SB could be a TANN FORTRESS
    56707 could be 1945

    Would that seem about right?

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Gordon View Post
    SB could be a TANN FORTRESS
    56707 could be 1945

    Would that seem about right?
    Hello Tom.

    Picture below. In your opinion Is that a cicra 1945 looking Tann ?

    Click image for larger version. 

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  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Safeone View Post
    Hello Tom.

    Picture below. In your opinion Is that a cicra 1945 looking Tann ?

    Click image for larger version. 

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    well, it's a Tann, but although I have no knowledge of this safe I can't see it being 1945, although it does look quite a beast.

  7. #47
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    Default Tann Fortress Size 55/4620

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Gordon View Post
    well, it's a Tann, but although I have no knowledge of this safe I can't see it being 1945, although it does look quite a beast.

    You're quite correct Tom, this safe would have been made round about 1970.

    The reason for any confusion is that this product was made at the Stratford factory in Borehamwood where they had a different
    numbering system from Billericay.

    It was also labelled as the Stratford Treasury in Marks 1 and 2 as was the Fortress. The Mk1 had a spoked handle and the Mk.2
    a round handle, The first production model Mk.1 was number 32206 and dated 27/11/68. The Mk.2 replaced it on 7/3/72/.

    From memory the Fortress was the first safe to incorporate a glass plate relocker. The design was a co-operation between the Ministry of Works team and Borehamwood in producing the P.O. model. It was made in 3 sizes only.

    The Code SB is of course for Fortress, and for the Stratford Treasury it is SBS and for the Ratner equivalents, the model 8500 and
    RQ 250, is SBR.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  8. #48
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    Thanks for the informed reply about the Tann Fortress. Really is appreciated.

    ( note to self 'stop buying large safes' )

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chubby View Post
    I remember those old Chubb Sovereigns. The ratio of the dimensions was different from the heavy safes in their standard range. The colour scheme and everything was different- rather than just making an even heavier Bankers' Treasury they set out to do something new, and succeeded. I don't remember but presume they had the isolator boltwork.
    Sorry Chubby but there is no difference in the dimensions of the Sovereign. It is identical inside and out to any other Isolator Safe. It is however the only one of the isolator safes that is identifiable by its livery, apart from a very early Bankers Treasury that had a round handle and a moulded pull handle the same shape as the sovereign on but not the full length of the door.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chubby View Post
    Yes, that's the boy! Doubtless made for anybody poor who needed a safe of that quality so had to get an economy model.
    You got me with that one Chubby!!

    I'd guess that Safeone's Bullion probably cost a third as much as a new Ford Escort back then, and with probably 10 or 15 safes in their range below the bullion, your scale has really got me thinking if that's an economy model for the poor!

    Does that mean 'average' people would have opted for the Bankers, wealthy for the Treasury, and the extremely rich obviously for the Diamond- well they had no other choice really. They probably bought a 'brace' of them so they could put one in each room. The one for the bathroom obviously being modified by Tann's to prevent steam from their sauna from softening the soap!!

    I can only envy your collection of safes there Safeone- probably surprising how many of us there are who'd do it if we could. When I look back at the number of safes our company and myself refused on the grounds of time, space, moving costs and manpower etc. It's great to see someone who can do it and keep some of those nice oldies going and to enjoy them.

    When I started this thread I had hoped for some world-wide feedback on anything that extra bit special, but so far most responses have been standard production safes. It's still great to see and hear what's out there and thanks to everyone for your replies. Hopefully we'll still get to hear about some long lost monsters that have been overlooked.

    When you consider British and European safes, top of the range standard production never really produced anything over a 6 inch door. By 6 inch I'm referring to the protective slab thickness and not overall. Add another few inches for the bolt case. Which raises a question about US safes- I think you guys over the pond refer to overall thickness when you say a 3 inch or 4 inch door?

    Anyway 6 inch protective thickness in door and body walls was about the max and even that was rare- Fichet Bauche's GC68 Bankers from the late 1960s and 70s springs to mind, as does Rosengrens' Jupiter Treasury. Their older V3 might also- only ever saw one and a monster safe but can't remember if 6 inch or not.

    One new possibilty I've heard of is the Australian Redoubt Treasury. What an elusive safe! An all Australian concept but made and sold under such closed secrecy I'm wondering if they've ever sold one. Apparently they only make 1 or 2 top end models which apparently has the magic 6 inch thick door and walls. Ultimate or one-off? probably not but perhaps someone down under has a bit more info- don't tell us too much as we don't want the men in black with the violin cases knocking at your door.. Oldlock? any ideas

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