1823 Jail Lock- NE United States

[USCustomHardware]

Does anyone have a photo and any background history of 1823 jail locks? Any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks,
Greg

PS- I posted this reproduction is it close??

[gmanphotog]

I am no expert on padlocks- I avoid them like the plague for precisely this reason. But I suspect this is modern lock produced in India, and aged through urine (and other methods). The fact it conveniently comes with two keys makes me view it with suspicion. There are numerous similar looking locks on Ebay, some claiming to be from Alcatraz or San Quentin. Others claiming to be Pauly Jail locks. I collect rim or jamb mounted Prison locks because the cost of making a convincing forgery would far exceed their going selling price (which is about $150 to $200 with a working key). But I could be wrong- I don't collect padlocks- Greg Wiley Prison Lock Collector

[gmanphotog]

I think understand what you are referring to now. You are referring to the reforms of British Prison of the 1823 Penal Act.

There is a 1824 Chubb lock on their webpage that may have been inspired by these reforms:

http://chubbarchive.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/page8.html

Otherwise I am not sure what you mean by 1823 lock

[Scott Klemm]

I am inclined to agree with Gmanphotog that the padlock is relatively modern (perhaps mid-20th century). I have one nearly identical in shape, rivet positions, etc. Although it isn't marked "Made in India," there are several things that suggest this such as a misspelling - GUARENTED. Also, the maker is not honest when he inscribes 10 levers on the keyhole cover. I can't see an American or British company being able to get away with this. Below are 2 photos of my padlock. I do have to admit it's solidly constructed.

[Scott Klemm]

Oop! I didn't post the picdtures. Here they are.

[BBE]

Oop! I didn't post the picdtures. Here they are.

Since the manufacture of any locks was centered in CT and didn't start there until 1831 it is unlikely that locks used in 1823 were made in the US. They may indeed have been Chubb locks if they were mounted to cell doors, but if they were padlocks it is most likely they were of the economically produced Scandanavian type and very likely had bull ring shackles.
BBE.

[Doug MacQueen]

Of course the Industrial Revolution lagged in the US when compared to Britain, as well as in large scale manufacturing. However, I have little doubt that the vast majority of locks used here were simple locks made by blacksmiths. For more sophisticated locks, yes some would have been imported. But lets look at the 1813 Perkins patented bank vault lock seen in American Genius. This lock was removed from a NH bank. It shows the machine made influence of the Industrial Revolution as it was coming into its own here in the U.S. It is highly unlikely any of his locks would have seen use on jails, so I am not suggesting that possibility. But the cutting edge of manufacturing here was not quite as backward as is assumed. By 1813 Jacob Perkins had numerous U.S. patents under his belt , including a nail making machine. He later moved to Britain where he continued making important contributions to the Industrial Revolution.

[Scott Klemm]

Thanks, Doug, for your input. Very interesting. My earlier remarks were not meant to imply that an American made jail lock was impossible. I was merely stating (in my opinion) what is most likely. The popularity of Carpenter locks on New England American homes in the 1830's seems to suggest that British locks were still being imported on a relatively large scale.

[Doug MacQueen]

I think the idea that locks were not made in the US prior to 1831 needs to be taken with a big grain of salt. The relationship between the making of guns and the making of locks historically is a very strong one, especially strong with the moving parts of the gun, which coincidentally is known as the lock. The manufacturing skills needed were virtually the same. Since Ely Whitney did make guns here 30 years prior, the abilities needed to make locks certainly existed here. There were more than 10 US lock patents granted prior to 1831, none of which came out of Connecticut. The odds are also very great that individual blacksmith/machinists were copying or making locks of their own designs that were not patented. So while it may be correct to say that the lock industry was centered in Connecticut, it is stretching it a bit to say the first locks were made there. Doug

[gmanphotog]

I really don't want to flame a US versus UK war, but I think there more evidence suggest what he is referring is something manufactured across the pond.

The question is what happening in 1823. It may not be a patent, but a Royal charter. The 1820's was a period when Chubb first expanded into detentions locks as Chubb archive article I linked to previously stated. Initially with padlocks, which as the article stated, became very popular in other countries, the US included? Don't know- probably. They also patented a dedicated prison lock in 1824, which is one I pictured. But as BBE pointed out during this period in the US, dedicated locks were rarely used.

But what is significant about 1823 is its the year Chubb became the official lock of the Royal family. Chubb locks carried this seal well after 1823, and certainly would have increased there esteem in the US. And a Chubb brother was making locks in the US at the time.

Also the lock the posted put up is Mickey Mouse shaped lock. The reason why 90 percent of the forgeries on EBay have a Mickey Mouse shape is that was shape of early Chubb padlocks.

So I think 1823 refers to the Chubb Royal seal.