Submarine key ??

[Riyame]

Well as suggested by another person on another forum, it could have been the key to access an enigma machine. I am sure that they would have wanted the best lock money could buy to protect them from anybody and everybody.

[oldlock]

The Bode-Panzer Tangential lock (which is what that key is for) were used on the safes on board the u-boats for sure. Also in German embassies of the period.

[Arcade Al]

The Bode-Panzer Tangential lock (which is what that key is for) were used on the safes on board the u-boats for sure. Also in German embassies of the period.

That makes perfect sense, I very nearly queried on-board safes earlier... thanks for the confirmation.


(The idea of a U-Boat having a front door lock is still making me smile though... )

[Neilau]

Thanks guys for clearing that up. PS the "front door" was a joke Thanks again.

[Arcade Al]

Thanks guys for clearing that up. PS the "front door" was a joke Thanks again.

It's certainly amused me today!

[BBE]

It's certainly amused me today!

I knew a guy, now deceased, who was a member of the OSS. He once showed me a key like that which he said he had gotten off the only U-boat captured during the war. They had tried to scuttle the boat but weren't quick enough and US forces took control. It was towed to a place in VA where my friend was asked to open the safe. He did but destroyed the lock in doing so. He said the only thing in the safe was the key he showed me. Later he was asked to go to the closed German embassy in San Francisco to open a similar safe.

Since he had opened the first one he said he knew how to open the second one without damaging the lock and he also had that lock. It was attached to a rather long tube that pulled out and pivoted to the side so the key could be inserted, shoved back into the safe and turned to operate the lock. The safe in SF didn't have a key inside and naturally the key he had from the U-boat wouldn't operate the lock from SF.

The only U-boat captured during the war is on display in the Science and Industry museum in Chicago. All evidence of the safe was removed befoer it went on display. So, if that is from a U-boat, and it loks like what I was shown, it is the one I was shown in Alexandria, VA about 1980 or it is from one decommissioned after the war. He did tell me that it was a Protector and not a Tangenital and of course I didn't know the difference then and maybe he didn't either. There is a picture of a Protector key in the Vincent Eras book you can compare to.

He also told me that he got to tour the Bode Panzer factory after the war but they didn't show them the lock and key manufacturing area. If that is the same key, small world isn't it?
BBE.

[mercury]

Well as suggested by another person on another forum, it could have been the key to access an enigma machine. I am sure that they would have wanted the best lock money could buy to protect them from anybody and everybody.

I doubt that the Bode-Panzer Tangential lock was used to secure enigma machines.


The wooden box or suitcase that typically held the machine usually had only a basic keyless catch, or sometimes a simple warded lock with a flat steel key.


The machines themselves were typically carried by mobile forces. In the case of Army Enigma, the machine was usually kept in a communications wagon. This wagon was ( in theory) always manned & there were strict orders to destroy the enigma machine should it be likely to fall into enemy hands.


A lot of the cypher security of the machine relies upon the fact that there are so many states/settings (choice of rotors, start positions, ring settings & plugboard links) to which the machine can be set to before encoding a message. This is the encryption key.


There are an immense number of these settings & this was assumed to provide great security . Without these settings, mere posession of an enigma machine was considered almost useless in terms of code breaking, although research in Poland, Bletchley Park & elsewhere refuted this.


The rotors to be used on a given day, their settings & the plugboard links were usually held in codebooks & they had to be very closely guarded. I would not be surprised if these codebooks were often kept in a safe equipped with the Bodepanzer tangential lock, or other high security lock. Protection of the codebooks was considered far more important than protection of the machine itself.


...mercury

[Oliver]

Hi guys,
I think, this is, what you have been discussing.....

This is my stand of a 40 cm long Tangential Lafetten, which I took off myself of a vault door, which is now scrapped. This was in 2008 - the vault area was two vaults, with almost the same door.
I also have the 40cm override key, which could have been used, if there had been a malfunction with the other lock or combination.
It is consecutive numbers with the Lafetten key.
I have never seen a longer "Tang" key than that.
The original contract gives proof, that it had been used during the Third Reich by the Nazis.
Enjoy.
Whoever is interested in "Tangs".......

[oldlock]

Thanks Oli. I must admit I greatly prefer those small solid keys over the folding ones that came with the locks from Roland.

[Neilau]

I would like to express my heartfelt thanks for all the information, research,time and the wonderful pictures that you guys have provided. As you know I originally posted this question on another site and was directed here. The posting on the other site generated over 1000 views in less than three days and is now approaching 1500. I'm sure that there are many more people that are now aware of this great, knowledgeable site (Antique-locks) and have probably joined as a result. Once again, to all the contributors. THANK YOU. Neilau