A Smal Mysteryl

[Doug MacQueen]

This should be easier to determine than the origins the ancient pin lock. I have noticed that with few exceptions, safe deposit locks in the US are lever tumbler with a flat lever key. It appears the flat key style was in response to the Hobbs pick, but I have never found any proof of this. Also strange that while the pin tumbler become for most locks, the lever style was retained in the banking industry. Size constraints may have been a factor, but I am thinking the flat key was the deciding factor. Doug

[Parautoptic]

I would have thought that resistance to picking would not be much of a factor, bearing in mind that most safe deposit facilities have an attendant who surely would notice someone picking their way into the boxes!

It might just be that it became traditional to use this style of lock in the same way that the 32 mm cylinder barrel was (and still is) pretty much the standard for night latches in the UK.

Lowe and Fletcher produced a range (the Zx series) of flat key locks with an override key. these were used for lockers in factories, gymnasia, pools etc. the override key would be used if the worker/customer lost theirs. Do safe deposit locks have a similar facility?

L+F also make wafer locks with an override key for the whole series, these see a lot of use on filing cabinets and other office furniture.

[Chris Belcher]

I have worked on a number of deposit boxes in banks and hotels, they were all dual custody. The banker locks would be keyed alike , the customer locks keyed to differ and no master key. A master key would make dual custody pointless.

[Pschiffe]

I have worked on a number of deposit boxes in banks and hotels, they were all dual custody. The banker locks would be keyed alike , the customer locks keyed to differ and no master key. A master key would make dual custody pointless.

The following quote was taken from a U.S. bank's website and is the typical practice within the industry on this side of the pond:

There is not a master key that can open the lock. Each box is equipped with a double lock requiring two keys. The bank has the guard key, the customer is given two identical keys. EACH KEY IS USELESS WITHOUT THE OTHER. No one can open or lock your box without your key. If one of your keys is lost, we will close out the box and issue you a new box. If both of your keys are lost, the box has to be drilled open, resulting in a $200 minimum charge, plus actual costs if greater. NEW KEYS CAN ONLY BE MADE BY THE BANK for a replacement fee of $20 each.

Pete Schifferli

[Doug MacQueen]

Yes that is the situation here in the US but does not address the practice of using lever locks over pin locks. I should point out that the Hobbs pick existed as far back as the 1830's here, long before safe deposit banks existed. Doug

[Huw Eastwood]

My experience of safe deposit boxes was the same on this side of the pond- exactly as Chris said and always governed by the same rules as Pete has posted- it all makes sense as any master key at that level would, as Chris pointed, make the whole concept useless

The L&F Z-series flat steel keyed locks that Para mentioned were (still are?) impressive for a zinc die-cast mass produced lock- 6 levers and quite secure and versatile for a fraction of the cost of their bigger cousins. If I remember right they also offered unique master keying to bespoke suites for applications where quantities made it viable. They also made a pin key version of the series as an alternative to the flat steel key. With the flat steel design though- Yale, Era and countless others made their equivalent versions. Curiously, I've got a miniature version of the flat steel type but with a UK cupboard-style salvaged case, brass plated and branded Yale- except it 's marked made in Germany- never figured that one out.

Doug in terms of the deposit boxes using lever locks with the flat steel keys I think you've nailed it, but for the banking industry adopting the lever lock in general, it's got to be down to their superiority over cylinder locks in terms of integration with safe and vaults etc? I can't imagine any cylinder lock on any bankers or treasury safe, or a massive vault door for example, where the whole lock could be protected from attack by the whole of the door's thickness and defences. Sorry Adrian- Gunnebo's Qatar bullion door is back again with a metre long Assa euro profile cylinder....

[BBE]

This should be easier to determine than the origins the ancient pin lock. I have noticed that with few exceptions, safe deposit locks in the US are lever tumbler with a flat lever key. It appears the flat key style was in response to the Hobbs pick, but I have never found any proof of this. Also strange that while the pin tumbler become for most locks, the lever style was retained in the banking industry. Size constraints may have been a factor, but I am thinking the flat key was the deciding factor. Doug

A question comes to mind. When did banks or others start offering safe deposit boxes? I think the answer to that may answer why flat keys were used. I am fairly certain that it would have been prior to 1858 and the Yale Sr. version of the pin tumbler because I have in my collection a Yale Sr. day gate lock that has a single row of 4 pin tumblers. The 'cylinder' for that lock is quite large and would not be easily adaptable to a safe deposit door.

If it precedes the pin tumbler, then there is the answer. Everyone had a round shank bit key and the logical move for a safe despsit box would be to use something that couldn't accidentally be operated by some other key in someones pocket. Hence the flat key and material wise it would have been cheaper to produce. It would have been popularized by the time Yale Jr. came up with his smaller and more adaptable pin tumbler cylinder in 1878 and it would have been fairly hard to change minds since it was related to personal valuables in a vault. Yale did make pin tumbler safe deposit box locks but they weren't nearly as popular as the lever locks.

While I must admit that I have never had one apart, it seems that the bolt mechanism would have to be a little more complex in a pin tumbler version.
BBE.

[Doug MacQueen]

At this point, the earliest safe deposit bank I've found was started right after the Civil War. I could be wrong as it has been several years ago. Yale Jr. had introduced his small pin lock right around the same time. I do know there were numerous flat lever lock push keys already in use years before the war. I have never seen any mention of just when and why the flat rotating lever lock key was introduced. It may show up in a patent. In the banks, there would be both the concern of how hard to pick as well as break open or drill. My experience in picking flat key SD lever locks was not very successful, especially when compared to lever locks with a 2-in-1. That is what makes me think the flat style became widely used here, at least by the banks, as it negates the value of the 2-in-1. Then again, I have been told that early Yale pin locks can be a tough pick. Doug

[BBE]

At this point, the earliest safe deposit bank I've found was started right after the Civil War. I could be wrong as it has been several years ago. Yale Jr. had introduced his small pin lock right around the same time. I do know there were numerous flat lever lock push keys already in use years before the war. I have never seen any mention of just when and why the flat rotating lever lock key was introduced. It may show up in a patent. In the banks, there would be both the concern of how hard to pick as well as break open or drill. My experience in picking flat key SD lever locks was not very successful, especially when compared to lever locks with a 2-in-1. That is what makes me think the flat style became widely used here, at least by the banks, as it negates the value of the 2-in-1. Then again, I have been told that early Yale pin locks can be a tough pick. Doug

I did a little online research and discovered a confluence of events that may have had some influence but didn’t find the answer for when safe deposit locks started being used.. The LeFebure site is the only one that attempts to examine history and it says:

In the mid to late 1800s, horse drawn stagecoaches traversed the wilds of America, carrying passengers on long journeys across large expanses of the frontier. During overnight stays at stage depots, it became common for station masters to offer passengers individual locked compartments inside the depot's safe to protect their valuables. The passenger would keep the compartment key, and the station master kept the safe's combination, providing a double layer of security. This early practice eventually evolved into the safe deposit system used by banks, hotels, and other institutions throughout the world today.

But checking on Wells-Fargo information doesn’t indicate that is true. Wells-Fargo started in 1857 but they only used their coaches for transporting mail and gold. There were a lot of smaller coach lines that may or may not have carried passengers. In 1866 Wells-Fargo bought out all the smaller coach lines and formed the Great Overland Coach Company which carried the mail and passengers from St. Louis to San Francisco. Those trips stopped at stations only long enough for the passengers to get coffee to have with their jerky and to change the horses. There was no need for a safe deposit box. BTW, it said the trip took 25 days.

In 1869 the Great Overland Coach Company was finished because of the completion of the trans-continental railroad. I think my original idea about wanting to get away from a standard round bit key seems more likely for why a flat key was used.

Regarding Yale, the original patent, (48,475), for a pin tumbler cylinder with a flat key was issued in 1865 but it doesn’t seem to have been produced then. In 1868, the year Linus Yale Jr. died, he entered into business with Henry Towne to form Yale & Towne. Mr. Towne’s expertise was with cranes and machinery to move heavy stuff. That original cylinder patent was reissued, (RE8,158), in 1878.

The key use index at the Yale factory calls a flat key with no millings key section A. That record further indicates that it was used for number 2 and number 2 ½ were used from 1868 until 1877 when the reissue application was filed. In 1887 the key section for cupboard locks and night latches was changed to C1R and the padlocks used it until 1897 when they were changed to E3R. It may be that the reason for discontinuing the flat key was a wider usage by others in safe deposit locks. If so, that info wasn’t recorded.
BBE.