Skeleton Keys - Please assist

[Scott Klemm]

As regards the claims that Schyler makes, yes, the dodgy maths is the bit I referred to. However, I think the argument that the lock evolved in Assyria then was transferred to Egypt is quite strong. The language would never have evolved without something driving it, and while it is possible it was imported to Assyria, then into Egypt, where on earth was it developed then? It would have to be some lost civilisation.[/QUOTE]

My extensive research on the origin of the pin lock began about 40 years ago (off and on). My conclusion was that the pin tumbler lock was neither the invention of the Assyrians or the Egyptians. There is no need to postulate some earlier “lost civilisation,” because there is no physical or literary evidence for this type of lock prior to the classical period (Greeks and Romans).

What about evidence based on the linguistic interpretation of certain cuneiform words? First, there is no consensus among scholars on the exact meaning of these words. In fact, it was Dan T. Potts disagreement with the translations of previous scholars that led to his 1990 article “Lock and Key in Ancient Mesopotamia.” I have read his article carefully. Here is his reasoning.

Previous writers all failed to use the “specialist literature” on early locks. Furthermore, the Encyclopedia Britannica clearly states it was invented in the ancient Near East. In his own words, “The difficulty of identifying these parts correctly lies, to begin with, in the choice of the correct lock system as a model, and thereafter in finding identifications which, in association with all of the other relevant terms, make mechanical sense” (p. 189). In other words, Potts has worked backwards. Instead of examining the evidence first and coming to a conclusion, he began with his conclusion and then looked for the “facts” to back it up.

[Huw Eastwood]

My reference to the Antikythera mechanism was purely to illustrate how our understanding can change very suddenly. I'm fully aware of the difference in timespan. As far as I know there aren't any historic records or any ancient clues to suggest the Antikythera mechanism or it's level of technology could have existed at that time, and yet up it popped and it's discovery changed everything.

All the current evidence we have from which to draw our conclusions is just that- current evidence. My reference to possible lost civilisations was purely speculative and not my own drawn conclusion for the lock's origin. The fact is, there's still a lot to learn about how far back intelligent civilisations and their associated technologies go, and we can't even answer that question as yet.

The origin of the lock may well rest with one of the civilisations discussed here, but I wouldn't be surprised to find it goes back a lot further than we currently think. One things for sure though- the further back we trawl the harder it becomes to determine, and we're only back 4000 years and yet still only realistically making assumptions. Nigel- 'we will likely never know'- I couldn't agree more

[Fuzyhamster]

Wow, well I'm glad I sparked a very intellectual conversation! lol Thank you guys for the information on my keys and warded locks in general =)

[NigelKTolley]

Just coming back to this after, what, 2 years?
If you have a look at my twitter feed, I have been making a very large (173mm/6.8") bridge ward (church) key.
So far, with modern power tools, it has taken some 8+ hours. It is now a matter of honour that I get it completed! The lock itself would be a sub -minute opening if I was prepared, and probably 15 from scratch. A "Skeleton key" could've been prepared fairly rapidly, but I'm cloning the other one entirely myself (I made a previous copy but had some machining help, & re-used the bow of another key) aside from adding 15mm to make it easier to use.

Thought: the very word "key" looks like an old key.

Here's the original with the calipers, & then the previous copy I did with the round bow.

[oldlock]

I did a similar exercise some years ago.

[oldlock]

My memory is playing tricks on me, the key above was for an actual lock. This one was the display piece.

[NigelKTolley]

Is that one of those yucky cast monstrosities for scale? They really are the worst. I bent one badly on the lathe, it started to whip it was that soft and so far from being straight!Beautiful work.

[oldlock]

Is that one of those yucky cast monstrosities for scale? They really are the worst. I bent one badly on the lathe, it started to whip it was that soft and so far from being straight!Beautiful work.

Yes, it is (or was) the biggest cast blank available around 15 years ago and I included it when I took the photos to show scale.

[Tom Gordon]

Yes, it is (or was) the biggest cast blank available around 15 years ago and I included it when I took the photos to show scale.

I have the lead, mold makers patterns...