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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
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    Cleveland, Ohio USA
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    Country: United States

    Default York Round Bank Door

    Here's one for you Max. I had worked on this door many years after the bank had failed, for a second time. The first time was during the Depression shortly after it was built in the Twenties. Now it is part a new restaurant here in Cleveland and they wanted to get it operational for a local TV shoot. Pretty nice door. Doug
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails IMG_0381.jpg   IMG_0387.jpg   IMG_0707.jpg  

  2. #2
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    Country: Wales

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    That's a beauty Doug- it's always great to see so many in the USA that are preserved in restaurants and bars etc- so many are just forgotten and rust away in dark basements.

    The different styles of boltwork the manufacturers adopted have always fascinated me- I think the type in your pictures was probably the commonest pattern to be seen across Europe, yet seems rarer over your side of the pond compared to the individually geared-bolt designs.

    Although Chatwood followed a different design yet again for a few examples of large round doors they made, I have seen this type here adopted by Chubb, Lips and Tann for European use.

    This type does seem the most logical- I guess it could be described as the application of 'standard' sliding boltwork, being applied to a round door, in that the circular 'drive' plate rotates, and operates the bolts by pins sliding in diagonal slots. I avoided the 'L' word this time- everyone knows what a slot is!

    Great pictures- thanks for sharing

  3. #3
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    Talking of doors being neglected and rusting away in the dark- I'm guilty of this one myself!

    I rescued it only days ago with no idea it was deteriorating into this state. Was one of a few Chatwood style doors I made- one as a paper-weight, one as a desktop pen holder and one for hanging up on the wall. Only I forgot to hang this one on the wall......

    I make all the locking bolts from stainless, but the corrosion on the mild steel is such they'd still seized solid. I've had to damage quite a few of them to get it apart, but when I get the time I'm thinking of a re-style on this one into a Remington Sherman or similar. I'll see if I can take some pictures along the way so you can see it 'before and after'.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails RustyDoor1.jpg  

  4. #4
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    That York design, which I refer to as a "cam plate" boltwork, was indeed somewhat common here in the US and I don't believe it was used by anybody else (in the US, though there was some similarity with a few Remington Sherman doors). Their rectangular doors were more "ordinary" and York manufactured some of Emil Straus' round doors (my favorite boltwork) along with a few truly exceptional doors (Cleveland Federal Reserve, New York Federal Reserve).

    What I wonder about, with the cam plate boltwork, is how they managed the friction of 24 sliding surfaces. Or did they use roller bearings between the plate and the bolt?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
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    Frankfurt Main
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    Country: Germany

    Default

    Hey Doug,

    thank you again for sharing this extraordinary photographs! You seem to be working on the most interesting vault doors I have ever seen. I have never seen a round vault door in person since we do usually not have them here in Europe. I know Garny must have made one some day because I have a picture of one in their old jubilee book but I have never seen this door

    I would like to know where it is but I have not been able to acquire that information yet.

  6. #6
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    There may be some confusion here-

    Wylk- Apologies if I didn't explain things that well!

    I wasn't referring to York or any particular manufacturers design- purely the basic principle of that style of boltwork being most commonly adopted on European doors, i.e the rotating disc or plate inside the boltcase that rotates and slides the locking bolts in and out via the visible diagonal slots.

    Big round doors weren't common over here in Europe like Dicey has said- they are a rare minority, but those I know of with the exception of Chatwood's, seem to work on this basic principle. I likened it to normal free standing safe boltwork as again it is the commonest found on British and European safes with 3 way or 4 way moving bolts- i.e using the diagonal slots to slide the top and bottom locking bolts in and out. This principle is very common here and the rotating disc/plate mechanism just seems a logical adaption of it to operate a big round door.

    I am aware that all the different manufacturers all came up with their own drive mechanisms to operate the disc or plate, and their own ideas for locking the boltwork etc, but I am purely looking at the basic idea of the boltwork here without individual makers' patents and ideas etc.

    I called it a 'drive' plate purely as it seems the most logical term to me- the big disc or plate in question does of course rotate concentrically about an axis, as opposed to having an eccentric or cranked action as the term 'cam' plate would suggest.

    The pics above are all I can find so far- I have seen a Tann and a Chubb also on this principle and will try and fish them out.
    The pics are of a Fichet and a Lips door- the Lips door at 40 tons is a fairly big one, the Fichet's a 'baby' in comparison!
    The 3rd door is a mystery- I've had suggestions as unusual as Chubb, but possibly even a Kaso? I'm familiar with some Kaso high-grade safes, but am unaware if they ever made big strongroom doors like this- Dicey- any ideas?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails FichetDoor1.jpg   LipsDoor1.jpg   Unknown Door1.jpg  

  7. #7
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    I have worked on some the doors I have posted, but not all of them. Most of my bank work was on modern doors, unfortunately. But here in the U.S., especially during the 1920's, lots of round doors were installed. There is almost an identical one to the I posted here, still in use, just a about one mile down the road. Doug

  8. #8
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    Of the three round doors MaxVaultage shared --

    The Fichet door is at the Société Générale bank on blvd Haussmann. Here is an even more interesting image, click on it and look closely:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I have not seen the Lips door before. Apparently this is from a book, could you tell us about it?

    The "unknown" door is in Hong Kong, the HSBC Bank at 1 Queen's Road Central. See for example http://www.flickr.com/photos/veryama...in/photostream and http://www.chubb-china.com/utcfs/Tem...Id=962,00.html where it is ID'd as a Chubb door.

  9. #9
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    Feb 2010
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    Frankfurt Main
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    Country: Germany

    Default

    I will also add a picture:

    A round Garny vault room door. I do not know where it is located and have never seen a round vault door in Germany. I have seen many vault doors though. Most of them with Kromer Protector locks and a Lafette + 1 or 2 Kromer combination locks with indirect drive. You can see the Garny writing on the handle of this vault door.

    The second picture shows a brochure that is sadly not on my possession. It is property of the economy state archive. Weirdly it is in English and was meant to be for the American or British market.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 005.Garny Festschrift.jpg   002.Prospekt der Firma Garny (3).JPG  

  10. #10
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    Thanks for the extra info and links there- the Lips door is pictured in the book Locks and Keys throughout the Ages by Vincent J.M Eras- Dicey has kindly added pictures over on the Yale Treasury Key thread. Unfortunately there is no mention of the door in the book, other than the index referring to the picture as being of a 40 ton circular door.

    The round Garny door looks great- I haven't even heard of this manufacturer before! Even the 'standard' rectangular door pictured in the brochure is still an impressive thickness- it would put most British 'Branch bank' doors to shame! Thanks for sharing Dicey- more pics for the collection

    It's amazing how many manufacturers that have made such large equipment but remain relatively unknown outside of their own country. I came across an Italian company while internet searching a while back, and was amazed to see they still manufacture a modern large round vault door for Banks and Financial institutions etc.

    Which reminds me while on this subject- there is an American manufacturer who is currently making 'old style' round vault doors for Branch Banks etc- Have you seen them over your way Doug? I can't remember the name but they're featured on their website and make mention of a return in interest of banks having the door on show in banking halls etc. They are modern rated/tested doors but have a touch of the 'old look' about them with the boltwork, old style brass work etc on show.

    I think that's great- the way electronic banking and transfers were heading it looked like banks were approaching the day they wouldn't even need a vault- now here's the early signs of banks going back to old traditions and having a modern 'old style door' where everyone can see it! I say Good luck to them and hopefully it will become more common as time goes on

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