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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    88
    Country: Australia

    Default Charles Smith Sons & Co, Birmingham

    In my collection there is an antique prison key, made by (it is engraved on the bow of the key) "Charles Smith Sons & Co. Ltd. Birmingham".

    When I acquired it, I tried to research the maker & managed to find only one very brief paragraph reference to them online, describing them as one of the best makers of prison locks of that era.

    It is a large but stout & heavy key - it's proportions made me assume it could be a fantasy key when I first saw it amongst a bag of keys I inherited. I will post pictures of it when possible, as I would be interested to find out more about the locks (engraving says it is a master key) it operated.

    Until then, I would be very interested in any information about Charles Smith, his company & his locks. Any information at all would be appreciated.

    ...mercury

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    1,754
    Country: Wales

    Default

    Some pictures will help everyone a lot

    I'm not familiar with the maker but regarding the size of the key it's probably nothing unusual for prison locks- especially very early ones. Even modern versions like those by Chubb Custodial have exceptionally strong keys and are considerably larger than typical mortice or rim keys. Prison keys have a very hard life and have to withstand countless operations- as well as heavy handling. Most modern examples are actually hardened and tempered after cutting to produce exceptionally sturdy and hard wearing keys.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    88
    Country: Australia

    Default

    Thankyou, MaxVaultage, here are some pictures.

    Please excuse the poor quality, they are taken on a mobile phone and do not do this beautiful key justice. The workmanship, right down to the radiusing of even the undercut is outstanding. The picture of the key in hand is to give some idea of scale, I do not have a ruler handy.

    I am aware if the strength required of prison keys, and have handled a few Folgar Adams & pin tumbler mogul cylinder keys, it was the fact that the key is so short that led me to assume it was a fantasy key until closer inspection.

    Clearly it is a key for a heavily warded lock, but was there any further security in this locking mechanism? The top of the flag seems to show that the lock may also have had levers.

    Any information at all would be much appreciated, ultimately I would like to find out what jail(or police station cell block?) the key came from.

    ...mercury
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  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Frankfurt Main
    Posts
    705
    Country: Germany

    Default

    WoW that key looks pretty interesting and is also pretty strong by design too!
    Nice piece for a collection

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    1,754
    Country: Wales

    Default

    Nice- looks a neat example- love the intricate font of the maker's markings.

    Think this is one where pinning down specific details might be tricky unless someone knows for sure- seems to be one of those makers lost in the mists of time. Also, Charles Smith was and still is, a very common uk name. Going back it looks like there were also several in Birmingham operating as gunsmith's alone.

    Here's a link to the Jim Evans history website page- if you look about half way down to 'Smith Deritend Bridge Works' there is possible mention but there is no 'son' in the name. Coincidentally the main company did produce heavy mortice and rim locks: http://www.historywebsite.co.uk/Muse...tteer/gazs.htm

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    1,754
    Country: Wales

    Default

    Forgot to add it is a long shot though- unlikely such an old company could have lasted that long till 1940 but you never know- interestingly the main company mentioned was part of what would eventually transfer, change and emerge as the well known Newman Tonks Hardware- I had no idea until I read that

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    41
    Country: United States

    Default

    This most definitely is the same company. It was started in 1828 and was run by various descendants of Charles Smith until 1940. A detailed article about the lock maker is in the Lock Collector issue 30 January/March 2011 starting on page 7.

    http://www.readbag.com/chrisbelcher-...ector-issue-30

    I own four British made prison locks, including a warded Charles Smith & Sons lock. British lockmakers were far more likely to use lock wards in prison locks, though usually the wards were used to create master key priviledges. American prison lock manufacturers very rarely used wards or master keying. I have over 40 prison locks and none of my American locks have wards or master keying. Not that it isn’t done- I've seen some Civil War locks in museums with wards, but as far as I can tell it was wasn’t done much in the US are 1870. Folger Adam’s website for instance almost gleefully proclaims that they don’t use master keying- and never have.


    My Charles Smith on the other hand is totally warded, which is unusual even for British locks.


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    I also have a red Hobbs prison lock from Ireland which has quite a few levers (7 if I recall correctly) and very extensive master keying. In fact I don’t think my key has full privileges. The lock may be out of whack (indicator window definitely doesn’t work), but I am only intermittently able to double throw it- usually on the 3rd or 4th try after locking and unlocking it. I’m thinking I’m having problems with it because my key doesn’t sufficiently privileges. The use of 7 levers or more is another feature that British locks employ that you don't see on American Locks. American locks typically have 5 lever, 6 tops. But American locks typically use die cast metals as oppose the sheets of steel used in the Uk.

    But British locks are just as likely to have as few as 3 levers. My gray Gibbons has only 3 levers, but includes master keying. Gibbons along with Chubb were the two top English prison lockmakers. The History of the Lock website has 3 Gibbons on display. Mine is very similar to the beige one from Corby Prison.

    http://www.historyoflocks.com/gib001.html

    One of my prison lock from Britain was very likely never used in the UK at all. I have a Gibbons Electro Jamb mounted prison lock from Canada. From all of my research, I have found no indication that this class of lock is used or was ever used in the UK. If you look at current detention hardware websites in the Uk, I don’t see any “Jamb mounted locks” listed. But the lock said it was manufacture in the UK, as are it’s electronic components. The lock is most similar to the Folger Adam series 50 Electro Mechanical locks in size, weight, and use of levers as opposed to a key cylinder, like the Folger 120 series. The key even has more than a passing resemblance to a Folger lever key. I have Folger key that ironically enough has almost the same key cut.


    My fifth British lock is the one that most resembles current locks in service in the UK. It’s similar to the gray Gibbons in that it has a auto slam deadbolting feature- but the modern blue lock sounds like a rifle when the slam lock engages and spins the white indicator handle around. I do not have a key for it- and I have never seen a modern British Prison lock key on display. The Brits are quite anal about not them not being photographed and there was a recent row in the UK when a television crew recorded one. But from the key hole it appears the modern keys aren’t as thick and probably not as long.


    I’ve never opened this lock up- the recoil intimidated me when I first got it. Now it’s mounted on the wall. But I do intend to have a look see one day at it’s innards. I’ll post them when I do.

    Here is a full album of my British Locks- and their innards!

    http://s968.photobucket.com/user/gma...k%20Collection

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    1
    Country: UK

    Default Relative

    Just found this thread searching for info on Charles Smith and Sons of Birmingham, the last Charles Smith involved with this business was my Great Great Uncle, the family ran a Brass Foundry first in Great Charles St Birmingham and then in larger premises in Deritend, They undertook many different types of metal working including Locks and one of their early examples is on the main doors of Blenheim Palace as well as locks for prisons and asylums. The company folded in 1940 when my Great Great Uncle was about 65 and therefore of retirement age he only had one daughter who died in infancy so there was no one to take on the business. He was also keen on Fossil hunting and built up a large collection which some were donated to the Birmingham Museum and others have been passed onto family members, I think his fossil hunting was more important to him than running his company.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    1
    Country: New Zealand

    Default Key, charles smith sons & co ltd birmingham

    Hi
    I work as a mental health nurse in NZ and was wondering if anyone on here could help date my key.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 20160418_031417 (1).jpg  

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Edinburgh
    Posts
    259
    Country: UK

    Default Smith cell lock key

    The OP's key is typical of Smith cell lock keys, though they did also make keys with flat round bows very similar to Gibbons.
    gmanphotog's lock is a version of the 'Pentonville' cell lock, invented by Thomas 1842. This was made by several makers (especially C Smith) and much used on the new reformed provincial prisons, and many small police stations. Its main virtue, as pointed out disparagingly by Mr Chubb, was its cheapness (about 10/-). However, many have a spring-impelled tumbler which moves outwards from the bolt tail rather than upwards. This can be clearly seen in the lock photos above. The lock is not quite as easy to manipulate as might at first be expected.

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