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  1. #11
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    Maybe I am misunderstanding the term crablock. Is it merely opposed hook bolts? Doug

  2. #12
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    Doug, yes, that's the term I usually see for what you describe, though there may be a better name for them. I'd be happy to learn better terminology.
    Peter

  3. #13
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    Again, this is just general information gained from experience in the trade. Not so important on passage doors but it is on chests and safes with surface mounted locks (and boltworks), enclosing the lock mechanism in a case prevents accidental jamming of the parts by anything held inside. Of course, the design of the lock as well as what is held within has a bearing on how important enclosure might be. A locksmith's chest from the 1600's would contain lots of small parts and tools which could easily foul the lock, if the mechanism were exposed. Regarding the terminology, I can't do any better than hook bolt. Older bank vaults with sliding grill gates used them. In some of these older chest locks, I see as many as 4 hook bolts used, sometimes tapered, sometimes not. It appears that the "crablock" style is one of the simpler 2 bolt types where the barbed catch would often be anchor shaped. Doug

  4. #14
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    Great explanation Doug !

    Brian ............................
    **************************

  5. #15
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    Thanks Brian, but probably not all that helpful I have done some searching around and found 3 Northern Italian 1600's locks in an Italian auction website. One of the things that I find very interesting is the artistic spring designs used in many pre-1800's locks. With the "crab Lock" style, the very simple and effective design of a partial ring makes it easy to make. But were these springs made of wrought iron? Also in looking again at Peters lock, the plain jane case design itself makes me think it may have actually been a much later copy of this style lock, possibly even from the 1800's. Doug

  6. #16
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    Doug,
    it may not have been quite clear, but in my earlier post I explained that the photo I posted shows a very good copy of an archaeological find; quite precisely dated to 1610 at Jamestown, VA, USA. One of the earliest English settlements in the US. The artifact survived in remarkable shape and it was simple to make a good reproduction with very little guesswork.
    as to whether the springs were wrought iron- I don't know if that question has been answered and have been unwilling to do any destructive testing on the locks in my collection. I have made a reproduction using wrought iron, but wasn't able to get the spring to work properly. However, my lack of success doesn't rule out the use of wrought iron in better hands.
    Peter

  7. #17
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    Peter, first off, let me state that I know little about pre- 1800 locks but I am intensely interested in the manufacturing methods and the metals used. I have been overwhelmed by the workmanship seen in the many examples found in European collections. However, I tend to forget there would have been a big difference in the high end market seen in these collections and the purely practical locks that were made. That is not to say that I don't respect the work you have done on the replica. I have only recently started doing some blacksmithing and know full well the skill required to make such a lock by hand. Assuming the Jamestown lock was English made and not on the Continent, that might account for the difference you have found in case styles. Regarding the wrought iron springs, in my limited experience in working with wrought iron found on early 1800's hobnail safes, it was surprisingly malleable. I believe that the springs would have been made of a more resilient carbon steel although harder to work. Doug

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptross View Post
    Has anyone seen a trunk/chest lock like this? This is a reproduction, but I have recently seen an original that dates from 1600. It has the typical "crab" lock mechanism but enclosed in an iron case. Any idea of where it was made or if there are others like it?
    Peter
    Northern Europe (usually Germany), or Pennsylvania, 17C onwards. There was a book for blacksmiths/whitesmiths last century, which included some lock patterns, and some modern craft blacksmiths have used these patterns. I don't have a copy so I can't now say what is in it but the style looks like modern craftsmanship.

  9. #19
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    I have recently come across another source of info regarding steel making during the 1600's. Joseph Moxon put out a book in the later 1600's describing the design and use of lathes during the period. Mention is made of hardening and tempering steel. Not to be confused with case hardening, which is also mentioned. So it can safely be said a higher level of carbon steel was used in the 1600's for at least some springs, edged weapons tools etc.
    It is also mentioned that the scimitars made of Damacus steel were better than the state of art swords of Europe. I am currently making a key for a crablock, and just bought Peter Ross's very nice video on making a crablock. He mentions that he had to use hi carbon steel for the spring. Close inspection reveals almost no movement of the spring as the lock is opened/ closed, just a bit of preload.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Morland View Post
    Do you have a picture or a link of the one you’ve seen?

    This is the one in our collection although we have never been able to establish its provenance.

    Attachment 8454

    Brian, that looks to me from the picture like cast iron?? Is it really
    ? If so, suggests 18C?

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