Old oddball tubular Key Machine

[goldpro]

Hi, Just wondering if anyone has a manual they could email me or info about this machine. It dates from around the early 1980's and was sold by Custom Security products/Pickmasters. It might have been made by Jensen as it's green and has a couple of dial indicators on it. It is very accurate but a bit slow to use. I found a couple of ads for it in old volumes of the National locksmith and I think they claimed it could cut keys with spacing for 7,8,9, 10, & 11 pins, cuts within a cut etc. The most puzzling thing is the spacing ring (large chrome round part) has 36 holes in it to divide a circle into. However many you need for a certain key....say 8 divisions for a 7 pin standard tubular lock. 36 divided by 8 = 4&1/2....this means I would need to move the spacing wheel 4 &1/2 holes to get to the next cut. that 1/2 hole is a bit of a problem as 8 doesn't divide into 36 evenly. :-) However the index pin can be shifted in it's holder to another placement hole to solve the problem. There are 10 different holes for the index pin to be put in. This means to cut a key you start- say with the index pin in hole 0 and the correct hole in the spacing plate. next cut you turn the spacing plate and put the index pin in hole #5 to get that 4&1/2 hole spacing. Kinda complicated and slow but it does work. The spacing is very accurate as is the depth although there is no quick way to zero the depth dial indicator so you know that a certain reading on the indicator means that the end of the cutter is exactly flush with the end of the key. Fortunately most of the blanks we use have the same measurement from the back of the barrel part to the tip so once you zero the cutter it stays pretty much bang on. The back of the barrel part on the key bottoms out on a inner shoulder inside the collet vise that holds the blanks. this is a code cutter only...no means to duplicate. has a small variable speed motor and is very quiet. I've written in felt pen on the spacing wheel the cut number in red and the index pin position in green. I don't know if I'm using it correctly so If anyone has experience with one of these please do let me know. thank you kindly, Tom

[goldpro]

Just an update.I cut a key for a master lock the other day. The lock was for a bike or motorcycle I think as it was similar to a very large pair of handcuffs with a chain between them. Anyway, the lock was a tubular 9 pin which means an even spacing of 10. I wasn't sure just how to do it but reasoned that I should divide the 36 holes by 10 to get a cut every 3.6 holes around the outside of the large chrome spacing ring. After looking at the customers key I guessed at the spacing starting point and got it correct, then in a similar way as I had done for the 7 pin, I moved the index pin back and forth every cut. this time however I moved it from 6 to 0 instead of 5 to 0 as I had done with the 7 pin/8 spacing regular key. It worked. One or two of the tumblers were fixed so those cuts have to be on the key before it will enter the lock. The barrel part of his original key was longer but the normal 1137S worked. The inside plug/barrel part of the lock pops out when unlocked out into the hollow of the key. To lock you can just push in the plug without using the key. I see over 100 folks have looked at this but no replies so I guess these are fairly scarce machines.

[Dean Nickel]

If I was looking to ID a key machine that didn't have a manufacture plate I would email some pictures to Framon and see if they know who made it.

http://www.framon.com/

[Dean Nickel]

Also you have to wait for some of the old timers to come thru and they might know something. Us younger guys know some stuff but not everything.

[Tom Gordon]

if you contact aloa HQ, they have a museum which includes a load of keycutting machines and may be able to help -if you are passing by, I found it a very interesting collection.
Tom

[BBE]

Just an update.I cut a key for a master lock the other day. The lock was for a bike or motorcycle I think as it was similar to a very large pair of handcuffs with a chain between them. Anyway, the lock was a tubular 9 pin which means an even spacing of 10. I wasn't sure just how to do it but reasoned that I should divide the 36 holes by 10 to get a cut every 3.6 holes around the outside of the large chrome spacing ring. After looking at the customers key I guessed at the spacing starting point and got it correct, then in a similar way as I had done for the 7 pin, I moved the index pin back and forth every cut. this time however I moved it from 6 to 0 instead of 5 to 0 as I had done with the 7 pin/8 spacing regular key. It worked. One or two of the tumblers were fixed so those cuts have to be on the key before it will enter the lock. The barrel part of his original key was longer but the normal 1137S worked. The inside plug/barrel part of the lock pops out when unlocked out into the hollow of the key. To lock you can just push in the plug without using the key. I see over 100 folks have looked at this but no replies so I guess these are fairly scarce machines.

There is a site that has instructions for most if not all key machines. Give it a try.
BBE.

http://www.simon-says.net/

[Suzzie Belcher]

Good morning BBE,

Would you mind very much if I copy the link re 'simon' into the COLTi forum, it's a very good resource. And I'm sure that it would be very useful to our members.

[Dean Nickel]

Suzzie, you might copy BBE as well into that foruml. He is a much better locksmith than I am.

[BBE]

Good morning BBE,

Would you mind very much if I copy the link re 'simon' into the COLTi forum, it's a very good resource. And I'm sure that it would be very useful to our members.

No problem with that at all. Laurie Simon has a long and illustrious history in the industry as does his family. I am sure he would appreciate the posting.
BBE.

[Suzzie Belcher]

Thank You BBE. I am sure that the members will appreciate Laurie Simon's hard work in compiling this resource.

Dean, I am a Team Member and happy to promote COLTi, here is the link to the application forms. Please feel free to pass on this link.