Well Doug I am not ignoring what you have just said I am also a little into manipulation but I am careful and do make posts on manipulation in other forums or even in closed sections of other forums. We have to be careful what we put out there and what not. And since our new member was not interested in a backround story or history at all I just got a little curious.

I think it is a shame that you guys stab me in the back here. I will withdrawl now and leave you to your discussion but do not expect me to back you up anytime soon.

Farewell.