Gougler keyless padlock combination?

[wylk]

It is fairly unusual for a product to exactly match its patent. In this case the patent itself is more for the locking mechanism and general layout, and the two screws you mention were probably wisely replaced with pins. Otherwise the screws could pose a significant security risk.

I would say yours is not a prototype but I feel it's an earlier model. I'll attach images of a similar lock that looks much more crudely cast, possibly not even brass. I don't own this one, I just ran across the images from a 2008 eBay auction.

[Junker]

Do you think I could take the lock apart by removing the one screw under the shackle? Or is it pressed together or something? It feels as if the spring that holds the lever (#36 Fig.4) in place may be damaged. I assume this because it takes a tap of the lock to move it up or down when the right combination is dialed. Then, once the lever makes it up to the flange (#25) it is very hard to turn the dial and make the lever push the flange, opening the lock. You can feel it in the dial when you get to it, but you have to jiggle and play with it to get it to open. Do you think one could open it up and fix it?? Or ruin it??

[wylk]

I can't really say what will happen if you remove the screw. The patent drawing isn't terribly clear, and we've already seen that this lock is not an exact match with the patent drawings. Where screws 50 and 51 are shown, your lock does not have screws but the casting has protrusions (one of which messes with the "NINE") in the same locations which strongly resemble those seen on so-called "pancake" locks, under which are usually found pressed-in pins.

You might be able to find articles online about restoring pancake locks such as the D.K. Miller and other varieties. Not impossible, but not for the faint of heart. I tried a restoration and it worked but I did a poor job on the aesthetics.

On the other hand the patent description does claim that the screw fastens #43 (the case back) to #1 (the case front), so it might be worth a try. This is a rare enough lock that I've never heard of one being disassembled.

Give it a try and let us know how it goes. Some day I might buy one of these and I'd want to know what not to do (wink).

[Dean Nickel]

I wouldn't suggest taking it apart. I would suggest maybe doing a "Dip" into a lube or at least a cleaning and lube might help. Cleaning I mean to spray a contact cleaner into the lock with the hole opening down and see if anything drops onto the cloth that you have there to catch the stuff that comes out. Then give a good blast of canned air to dry it out. After that you give it a shot of a teflon or silicon based lube and see if that fixes the hard to open. You can also try to open the lock in different directions so that each side is down so you can see if it is a broken spring. If it opens easy one way and not at all 180 deg from that point then you know you have a spring issue. I would try these things before trying to take it apart.

[Junker]

I wouldn't suggest taking it apart. I would suggest maybe doing a "Dip" into a lube or at least a cleaning and lube might help. Cleaning I mean to spray a contact cleaner into the lock with the hole opening down and see if anything drops onto the cloth that you have there to catch the stuff that comes out. Then give a good blast of canned air to dry it out. After that you give it a shot of a teflon or silicon based lube and see if that fixes the hard to open. You can also try to open the lock in different directions so that each side is down so you can see if it is a broken spring. If it opens easy one way and not at all 180 deg from that point then you know you have a spring issue. I would try these things before trying to take it apart.

Thanks for the advice. What exactly do you mean, "with the hole opening down"? Are you talking about the hole where the shackle goes? I actually tried cleaning and lubing with some w-d 40. But the hole where the shackle comes out, where the screw is, I guess is sealed off with the screw. I could fill the hole up and it would stay full, not seeping in. The only other way to get anything in was a small opeing around the shackle on the other side, where the shackle stays connected. So I actually completely submerged the entire lock and let it soak for a while. Didn't notice any difference. I'm wandering if the cleaner even was able to get inside the lock, to the parts where it is needed. As far as trying holding it in different directions while opening, that didn't make any difference either.

[Dean Nickel]

Well that leads us to removing that screw to see if it will get you to where you want to be. I hate doing that without knowing what that screw holds. The other option is leave it sit in your collection and not worry about it.

On a side note at least it sounds like it might not be a spring issue.

[Junker]

Well, I removed the screw and nothing fell apart. But this did give an access hole to get some lubricant/cleaner into the internal parts of the lock. I put the screw back, and still no change in the working of the lock. So, getting a little braver, I removed the screw again. This time I used my pocket knife blade to start prying into the lock, along the seam around the casing. It popped open! Using a flat head screw driver, I continued around the casing. I did not get the back all the way off, as it seemed to be held at the point where screw 51 went on the patent print. I didn't want to force it too much in fear of breaking something. But I was able to get the one side up far enough to see inside. After a little studying, I learned that I did not have it in the correct spot after all to unlock it. Before, I was using a 4 digit combination then wiggling and playing with it, basically getting lucky, and getting the lever to where it needed to be to unlock. That is why it was so difficult to unlock. Now I have learned the full 5 digit combination and it unlocks very easily, just as it should. The only thing keeping this lock from working perfectly as it would have new, is having to give it a tap when you dial it the combination to move the lever up and down. I think I will just leave that be, as it is no trouble, and not a big deal. I guess if I lived to be 110 years old I might need a tap on my bottom to make me move too!!

[Junker]

Well, I know I said in my last post that I would probably just leave the lock alone now. But, it has become an obsession and I couldn't. I started thinking about why I was having to give the lock a tap to make the lever move up or down. If it was supposed to be spring loaded, it would only suppose to move in one direction, up or down, not both. So why was I having to tap it down at one point, and up at another? I was wrong before when I was using a 4 digit combination and getting it to open with a little wiggling. Maybe I was still wrong with the 5 digit combination and my tapping!

This was exactly the case!! Last night I read very slowly and carefully Miller's explanation of how his invention worked. Between this and the diagrams, I learned a lot more. This morning I was able to completely remove the back plate from the lock. To do this, once you open the lock, remove the screw from under the shackle, the one side pops up, you pull the remaining side of the shackle up, then turn the backing plate counterclockwise. Off it comes! Once off, I could then see everything work as I turned the dial.

The lever is supposed to move freely. Freely, but not loosely. It is never suppose to fall down at any point. It is loose, but there is a piece of spring metal attached to the inside of the backing plate. This piece holds pressure against the lever to hold it in place. This is necessary as the pin on the lever is not always resting on the ridges on the disc. One ridge may push the lever up a bit, then once that ridge runs out, the lever stops right there in place. Nothing holding it there other than the spring metal. Then, once you begin turning the disc in the opposite direction, another ridge will eventually make contact with the pin on the lever, pushing it a little further up. Until you finally make it to the top, press the flange, move the tumbler, and release the shackle. Presto, it's open! I was actually cheating, not even knowing it, by tapping the lock, making the lever move at points it shouldn't. Now, I am 99.9% certain, I am doing it right! Nothing is broken, everything is working properly as it was designed to, no tapping the lock, not hard to open, just a simple 3-digit combination, and it's open!

I guess this may be hard to understand without seeing it in person and being familiar with the type of lock. But I hope I have made a little sense trying to explain it. Maybe someone has learned something and maybe it will help with someone else's lock. I will post some pictures of the inside of the lock once I am at a PC again. Maybe a video of me opening it as well.

[oldbiscuit]

Junker, I'm glad you were able to get it figured out, I'm sure it put a smile on your face, it would mine. Please do put pictures of the inside and a video, I'de love to see it. Thanks, Mark

[Semolian]

Hello Everyone!

Kinda new to the forum.
I've been a padlock collector since I was a kid.
My hobby was recently rekindled when I stopped at an estate sale and found a box with some keys and some old warded master locks and stuff.
One of the locks was a Gougler, like the ones I have pictured below, I was lucky because this one came with the original combo ticket and the ever illusive crazy looking control key, Jackpot!!

Now I'm kind of hooked on these locks! Everyone I show it to, wants one! LOL

They ARE very cool!!

So, that leads me to the matter in hand, these two old keyless locks, one Gougler and one Miller with no known combinations.
They both have "Westinghouse" on their dials.

I have been very successful at recovering the combinations for other, more main stream, padlocks out there, but this type of lock is a whole different breed. Not too many instructions on how to revive these old beauties!

So I call upon all the Gougler Guru out there to hear my prayers.

These two locks are SCREAMING to be opened!!

The Gougler has a hard to see/read # 7201 on the shackle.

The Miller has the # 9140 on the shackle.

Any assistance is greatly appreciated!

Thank You In Advance.

Semolian.