Victor Cannonball Style Safe

[Doug MacQueen]

I thought I had mentioned this before but I don't see it now. If a door has serious rust problems, then using the engine stand is a really good idea as it gives better access to the door and jamb. But doing it that way should not be necessary on clean or slightly rusted doors. Just screw the door in almost all the way and remove the hinge. The outer pan can then be pulled off and the combination determined. On later doors, you don't even have to pull the pan as the combination is key changeable from the outside. Tripping the bolt detent trigger to test the timelock auto function with the door open is absolutely mandatory to ensure proper retraction of the door bolts. Wind a few hours on all three clocks, wind the lower spring shaft and trip the trigger. The bolts should extend out fast. I do not know if the trigger must be held in place on that door but it might. Retraction of the bolts should also be a fast and sure movement. Any sluggishness would indicate a problem and locking the door would then be risky. Also, at least two of the time movements should start without hesitation when wound, otherwise I wouldn't shut the door with the auto cranked up. Doug

[00247]

Thank you Doug for your input in this and other threads. You bring up a good point about leaving the door screwed in and removing the jamb and pan. (keep the correct terminology coming) Because I wanted to remove my door for restoration I had never thought of simply removing the jamb to get the combination. Sometime the obvious is the hardest too see. It is funny, this little safe seems so secure, but one could easily get into it with a couple common wrenches within minutes. Provided the time lock is not set of course. I will be showing some more of the features and parts of this adorable little safe and hope you and others will comment and share knowledge about the Victor cannonballs. For now, what oil can you recommend for the time lock mechanisms, in the time lock body itself and for the time lock door bolt linkage. Do you have a favorite oil of protecting the raw metal surfaces from rust? What would be a good light grease to use on the slide (bolt?) between the combination and the pinion? It needs to stay soft and yet not creep and bleed out. Is a petroleum or silicone grease preferred? The teeth on the ring gear will need grease also. Are there any trade specific lubricants or are the normal lubes off the shelf used?

[00247]

Next I will explore the backside of the door. I won't go into the combination as there is plenty of information on the internet. I was lucky that this safe still had it's original time lock from the Bankers Dustproof Time Lock Co. Bankers time locks are common on Victor cannonballs but are quite rare overall. Details on these time locks can be found at http://www.my-time-machines.net/. I would like to thank Mark for his assistance with my time lock. Here is how the back side of the door looked. In better overall shape as it was on the inside. There is a thick steel plate enclosing the rear of the door. The patent tag is mounted below the time lock. As mentioned earlier in this thread, this safe is thought to be a 1908 model as it has the earlier design fine threads on the door (1905-1908) but has the updated patent tag for the 1908 patent for the new course thread door. There are several safes that have been found with this quirk. The trim ring around the time lock is off in this picture. Also, note the piece of original carpet in the safe.



All parts on the rear of the door are nickel plated. The rear plate also has an engine turned design (also called jeweling, damascening) matching the front of the door. This process turns an ordinary flat piece of metal into an amazing 3 dimensional looking work of art.



To remove the time lock each time piece needs to be removed to access the 4 bolts underneath. There are a number of spacer washers and a rubber isolator to keep track of. Now the time lock linkage is exposed. Here it is in the locked position with a picture that will show you how the trigger button in the door threads works.





The time lock was not perfect. The latch for the door was missing for decades. Latches were a common issue with Bankers time locks. This allowed the door to flop around as the safe door rotated. With the safe open the time lock door can fall open and get pinched in the closing process, a crease in the door cover proves a careless person did just that. The doors are often missing so I won't complain. Each clock in the time lock is mounted on a spring suspension system. This along with the rubber isolators provide shock protection to the clocks from door slamming, forced entry, or explosives.





With the help of Mark at http://www.my-time-machines.net/ I have a prototype latch made for the time lock door. Bankers time locks came in 3 and 4 clock versions and had doors with and without windows. Each style had a slightly different latch. I had a pleasant surprise while studying the latch opening on the door. Deep inside the opening I found that the latch return spring had somehow remained in it's bore despite the door often flopping in the down position. Thank you time lock gods! Now with a picture of the correct latch from Mark I can make a latch equivalent to the original. This is the best picture I have. Being a window style door the latch is slightly different than mine.



What's next? Here is a shiney hint...

[Doug MacQueen]

Here are couple pics showing successful burglaries on Victor cannonballs. The one blown open is one of the fine thread models. This very burglary may been the impetus for Victor to change the design of the door. Note that the threaded portion is actually a separate bolted on piece whereas in the later coarse thread model the door is all one piece. Special patented machines were made to cut in the grooves. The other one, burned by torch through side resulted in the encased in concrete round door chest era that followed. Apparently this was not an approved burglary method in England. (Insert smiley here).

[Tom Gordon]

1. Chatwood's 1865 patent gave protection against oxyacetylene 50 years later, although of course it was never designed to.
2. Except underfloor safes, only 2 round door safes were ever made in the uk (both for dairies). Round door vaults were very rare too.