Victor Cannonball Style Safe

[Doug MacQueen]

Resist the temptation to shut the door until you have gained a full understanding of how it all works, and having locked and unlocked it with the door open numerous times. This may seem obvious but to some, it isn't. Somewhere, someone may have factory info one these but so far I haven't heard of any. Winding keys can be obtained from some jewelers who do watch repairs. Check out "My Time Machines" online for some pictures of your timelock. As a beginner on these you have a big project on your hands and you should consider finding a locksmith with considerable safe experience or better still someone with bank time lock experience to help you out. Take your time and photograph everything you do do. I do have some pictures of a door with the timelock removed. The combination dial on the outside only prevents the door from rotating and is not at all connected withe timelock automatic inside. I can't remember if the large outer pan will come off with the combination locked but remove the small screws around the pan and try that. Post again once you have tried to remove it. Doug

[Dean Nickel]

I would second what Doug said. I also agree to have someone you can call if you need help setup. Who knows you might get a long time friend.

[Doug MacQueen]

These pics are from a slightly later model so take that into consideration. It appears that I did have to set the door in place in order to remove the hinge before I could remove the outer pan with the dial. Is yours the same? Doug

[00247]

How time flies. I had hoped to keep this project on the fast track but life changing issues detoured it to the corner of the shop. Much like the Bermuda Triangle, the shop corner is a bad place to be. Fortunately, this safe project is on track again and a number of things have been accomplished. Just like James, I purchased my safe locked with an open door. No problem I thought as I had easily accessed the combination lock on common square safes through the backside of the door. It didn't take long to realize that the design of the rotating door and the time lock on the back of the door made that process impossible. The door on this Victor cannonball needs to be removed to access the combination. This is a tricky process as the door is very heavy.

First you will need a way to support the door. I modified a car engine stand. I don't recommend using a cherry picker with straps. It might work to get the door off but trust me, it takes some careful alignment to put it back on. Especially if you don't want to cause scratches or paint damage to freshly restored parts. Once the door is supported the decorative finial can be removed from the door hinge bolt. They are often missing, but if you are lucky enough to have them be careful as they are very soft. The finials are simply threaded on. Next, you can remove the locking bolt from the front of the door cradle that locks the door hinge bolt in place. Then you will be able to remove the door hinge bolts. Notice how you can move the door up or down within the cradle by adjusting the bolts in unison. This is how you align the door vertically in the opening of the safe body. The threads on the door hinge bolts may be damaged from the locking bolts so use care when threading them out. Now that the door hinge bolts are out the door can be removed from the cradle. This is where the engine stand works great. I can raise or lower the door to take pressure off of the door hinge bolts, clear the cradle, and it is easy to roll it around the shop. Just keep it out of the corner!


Now that you have the door out you will need to remove all the bolts around the perimeter of the door. There are 4 bolts that secure the door cover to the door body. There is also a door pivot stop bolt which hits the stop bolt in the cradle and a bolt that supports the door pivot spring. Now the cover or pan can be removed. Inside you will find the combination box assembly, the sliding lock that is moved by the combination dial and the corresponding guides, and the pinon gear assembly. Note the notched collar on the pinion. That is how the door is locked externally when the slide moves into the collar. Now you can remove the combination box to open it up and decipher the numbers. Once you understand how it locks, this tough little safe boasting it's manganese steel isn't so tough after all. Unless the time lock is engaged. More to come...

[00247]

Here is the door assembly in it's original form. Note the trigger for the time lock. When the time locks are wound up the lock bars cannot expand until the door is rotated all the way in and this button is pushed in at the precise position. That is when the timing marks are aligned on the door and safe body.




Once I had the door out of the cradle and opened things got interesting. I opened up the combination box and quickly figured out the combination. It is a Sargent & Greenleaf, clean as a whistle. It has a nice smooth feel to it and it is a pleasure to spin the dial. The lock slide was well lubed in good condition. The pinion was another story. While the gear was in good condition there was an issue with the lock collar/washer. It was mounted to the pinion shaft on a double key way. At some point the key ways failed and a poor repair was done. A hole was drilled into the shaft where one of the key ways was and a piece of bolt was put in and cut off to fit the key way notch in the collar. Then the whole assembly was brazed together. The braze had let loose and the whole thing had a lot of play in the pieces. I have to assume excessive forces from banging the rotation stops and the wedging of the door from improper adjustment and rusty surfaces took their toll. The pinion was welded up, turned down, and new key ways cut. A new collar was also made so that all tolerances would be tight. A missing brass bushing was turned and pressed on the other end. The ring gear looked good with no issues found.









The out side surface of the door is raw steel. Lack of care allowed the finish to rust. I had to get quite aggressive to bring the finsh back to life. Painting it would be an option but the door fits so tight (nitro proof!) that the paint will be damaged. First I took the belt sander to the surface being careful to work around the radius flat. I tried a number of different final finishes and settled on using a sharpening stone. Working the steel with a stone and oil left a flat satin finish. I offset it with a more polished finish on the door threads. The threads were a lot of work but the final look is nice. Next, the time locks...

[J50shootr]

WOW ! Thanks for all the great pictures and the warm welcome . Doug did you get a chance to see my pics on photobucket ? The door, hinge and time lock are the same but the mine is definitely a fine thread model like 00247's . The time lock is missing the original door and has a custom plexi glass cover on it . I did resist the urge to shut the door until I made sure the time lock was run out and depressed the bolt trigger . The combination dial is unlocked and taped in place. I am going to try to purchase a winding key at a clock shop in Reno. I want to find out if the movements run and the time lock functions correctly. The guy I bought it from said that they run but who knows .Since my lock is missing the door , the instructions for winding are gone. I have since found a nice picture of the directions . I want to wind the movements and bolt motor and test it with the door open. Is there any issue with tripping the trigger with the door open? Does the trigger need to be depressed for the bolts to retract? One thing I did find out after it arrived here in Nevada from Texas is that it looks like that someone cut into the back of the safe and then rewelded it up with Nickle rod. The repair was covered with a couple coats of paint. Maybe this is why the time lock door is gone , might have been damaged trying to get the safe open? After I figure out the function of the time lock I am debating weather to remove the door with an engine stand or seat the door in the safe so I can remove front cover and retrieve the combo. @ 00247 did you paint the safe body with the door off ? That seems like the way to go. Did you have the screw and jam re-plated it looks awesome.

[J50shootr]

I will post more pictures as my project progresses, Here are a couple more as it arrived . I have also noticed that there are more than one timing mark on the safe body . Did this change due to wear ? Does anyone have any insight into this ? The bolts appear to be lined up with the door closed all the way as it is in the pic below.

[Doug MacQueen]

Here's a few pics showing the relatively fast evolution of the Victor round door. Several of the big makers started with similar small round door chests in the 1890's, quickly turning to larger cast manganese steel cannonballs in the early 1900's. Doug

[Adrian Weber]

002 the restoration work you did on that cannonball safe is just beautiful!
Very nice finish :)

Also thanks to Doug and Josh for the great pictures and information!

[Doug MacQueen]

Regarding the index marks on the jamb, usually on round doors, there is a built in stop that correctly aligns the locking bolt. And little margin of error for proper alignment, meaning when locked the door shows very little rotational movement, with just enough to allow the bolt to freely move into place. With heavy use, these stops get beat up, allowing the door to turn a little past the mark. The cannonball doors that I have seen do seat tighter than the later lug style doors by Diebold, Mosler etc. of the 1930's and on. Wear in the hinge could alter the depth that the door could easily be screwed in and cause it to jamb up tightly. This would in turn also cause the type of stress and damage seen in the handle pinion screw and bearing. Doug