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  1. #1
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    Default Walker's Triumph Safe Lock.

    A correspondent from South Africa asked for my help in identifying an old safe which he has inherited from his Grandfather.

    It appears to be an early Saml.Withers with the escutcheon as illustrated.

    I found that there was a John Walker & Co of 11, Edmund Street, Birmingham making safes in the late 19th Century but I cannot find any trace of a Patent Triumph Lock under that name.

    Any help would be appreciated.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  2. #2
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    Default

    I ran across an ad that has R. Adams Engineer as a maker of several different locking devices and all were called Triumph. I don't have access to English patents so I can't check this man. Doug

  3. #3
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    Default

    Here is a key to a J. Walker's Triumph Patent Safe. I don't, unfortunately, have the lock. Karl.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Walker.JPG  

  4. #4
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    Default Many thanks.

    I think I've got to the bottom of the matter at last. Thank you Magpie for the picture of the key. Pretty good quality and assume the 'L' shaped cut is to accommodate a ward and does not imply a Tann type guarded lever.

    I have now established that Walker who was making safes in Birmingham under his own name eventually became part of the better known safe making company Walker & Worsey.

    There is a patent No.1043 registered in 1865 for Walker.J. under the heading of latches, locks, and keys which may well apply to his pick-proof Triumph lock. I also came across the attached advert for Walker & Worsey which includes an illustration of his 'Compound action Triumph unpickable mortice lock.'
    Click image for larger version. 

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    I can now inform my correspondent in South Africa that his Grandfather's Samuel Withers safe is fitted with the above patented lock although, from the illustration of the key which he sent me, only appears to have half the number of levers which Magpie's picture shows.

    Another satisfied customer - i hope.

  5. #5
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    Default

    I did find the 1865 patent description and it doesn't sound at all connected with an "unpickable" safe key lock. It describes a spring latch bolt moved by vertically moving knobs. Doug

  6. #6
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    Thanks Doug. From the illustration that Magpie posted it appears that Walker's original patent developed from a domestic application into something much more in the safe lock catagory.

    The lock on my corresondent's safe (not South African as I mentioned but from the Netherlands) is only a 5 lever version but with the same 'L' cut in the bit as the 9 lever pictured. This would be commensurate with the general quality of the Saml. Wither's fire-resisting safe to which it was applied.

    I hadn't appreciated until now that makers such as Withers would have fitted locks other than from their normal supplier to suit their customer's personal premises. I should have remembered having come across old safes such those by Phillips which were often fitted Chubb's detector locks.

  7. #7
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    A picture of the insides of the lock would probably be of help. I get the impression the locks may be Tann or copies possibly. Or he used the guard cut to play on Tann's popularity. I can't get the drawing of Walkers "compound" lock clear enough to determine what it is. No other Walker lock patents show in the listing in Chubb's book which I think ends around 1875. I find it a bit strange a relatively unknown maker of an "unpickable" safe lock made late in the 1800's would be just that, relatively unknown. Doug

  8. #8
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    Feb 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug MacQueen View Post
    A picture of the insides of the lock would probably be of help. I get the impression the locks may be Tann or copies possibly. Or he used the guard cut to play on Tann's popularity. I can't get the drawing of Walkers "compound" lock clear enough to determine what it is. No other Walker lock patents show in the listing in Chubb's book which I think ends around 1875. I find it a bit strange a relatively unknown maker of an "unpickable" safe lock made late in the 1800's would be just that, relatively unknown. Doug

    Shall I put you all out of your misery?
    Images of lock .
    Cheers.
    Patent
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails H.jpg   D.jpg   K.jpg   L.jpg  

  9. #9
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    Yeaaa.... . Why am I not surprised you'd have one. Nice, now have you found a patent that actually goes with that design? or I am just being pushy. Thanks Doug

  10. #10
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    Default Well done Mr Patent!

    What a wonderful surprise - I didn't expect to get anywhere further on this.

    I can't quite make out how many steps there are on the key but they almost appear to be more than five. My correspondent's key, which was also a pipe key, has only five levers.

    This almost looks to clash with Tann's pat.9963 Reliance lever except that it's main purpose does not appear to be as an obstruction to accessing a protected underlying lever.

    Just prior to receiving your reply I obtained a better copy of Walker & Worsey's 1892 advertisement which, although providing no information on the mechanism of the Triumph lock, included an illustration of their Patent Parallel & Hook Bolt Bolted Safe with Triumph unpickable lock. I would have thought that Chatwood's 1865 Patent would have precluded acceptance of anything so similar unless it was just due to expiry of the original patent.

    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	8972 Thank you again for putting at least one person out of his misery.

    Regards ... Safeman.

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